Im totally serious!
I just lost a job recording a high profile rap act simply because they didnt trust my software.
Stupid i know as its the man behind the gear and not the gear itself but thats just the way it is.
When people walk into a studio they want to see loads of gear, preferably a huge mixer,a hole in the wall with a window:)
As well as a DAW (Pro-tools) and not a video editing program!!
And i can totally understand that even though im a bit pissed at this fact at the moment.

Basically im not asking for a name change though it would be nice what i am asking is Is Sonic Foundry going to sell A program ,ANY program that will be used for multitracking??

Simple question really!

Well, Arnar, I'm also totally serious and I was trying to help; if you knew Vegas Video 3 at all properly, you'd realise it IS a fully fledged multitrack. All it really needs is a name change, and arguably a few feature additions.

Ben

How did this Rap Act find out your software was called Vegas Video? I imagine you told them? There's really no need to mention the word "Video".

When someone asks you what software you're running, simply say, "I use Vegas by Sonic Foundry. It's just like Pro Tools, but a little more powerful and user-friendly...and a lot less expensive."

If they balk at the fact that it's a cheaper program, tell them you could get Pro Tools if they really want it, but then your rates would have to double to cover the cost.

There's no reason at all, unless you're dealing with an artist who is a gear-head and an elitist, that you need to lose customers over your mutli-track app of choice. The quality of the recordings coming out of your studio, and your personality and reputation as an engineer, is all that really matters in th end.

Just my 2 cents...:-)
Rob

First off ...Ben ...My "simple question really" was aimed at Sf not at you personally as i do realise you were trying to help.(think you might have misunderstood me there:)

And Rob..."I use Vegas by Sonic Foundry. It's just like Pro Tools, but a little more powerful and user-friendly...and a lot less expensive." Thats exactly what i say!!

About the rap act then they asked me what program i used and i said Vegas and Immediatly they said...Huhh.....Isnt that a video editing program??

So its not me telling them the Video part, you see.

SF are marketing this app as a video app and what i simply want to know is if they plan to market a multitracking app??

And obviously im not talking just name changes as im sure that if they start to market something as an AUDIO application then their focus would shift tofulfilling maybe some of the requests that tha audio ppl have been making , right?

And its not only gear -heads and elitists that mind what program you use.
Its the people on a budget that dont know any better , they think they will get a better recording with pro-tools( nobody ever askes me what converters im using)

About doubling my rates to cover the costs....Hmmm.... Does that mean that studio time with me should be half the rate of other Pro-tools studio´s??

im not sure why im ranting about this??
Maybe because there´s only a few hours since i lost a job because of this....Bummer.

I may not have been following this board too closely but i havent seen any straight answers from SF about this matter.
learning a new app is time consuming and i need to plan my transition to a new app if SF are just going to continue making a Video app and not work on making a better DAW.

I love using Vegas ,No question , i had Pro-tools but i dumped it as i think its slow and gets in the way of my creativity.

i tell my clients that i am using vegas audio because, in reality, that is what i am doing when i am recording audio. all i am using is the audio features. on video projects, i tell the client that i am using vegas video. works for me! about protools, tell them that protools has made pro fools!!! lol hopefully they will understand.

Here is a link to a message that I posted a while back:

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=92629

Doug

So you're gonna change your app because of the NAME?!

And, if that "high profile rap act" left you, it's because your splash screen didn't say "Pro Tools". There's nothing you can do about that.

Changing "Video" to "Audio" isn't gonna bring them back. Changing to Pro Tools is the only solution for those types of people.

Let's stop muddying the waters here. SoFo is just gonna dismiss the whole forum as a bunch of whiners, with all that's been going on.

I'd rather focus on the functionality of the prog, rather than the moniker. If you were using Samplitude, CEP, SONAR, etc. that group would've still walked on you.

Cheers,
D

Admittantly, I have to say "Protools" has a name that carries itself within the audio world. I have had to deal with this problem many of times when dealing with "new" clients, when they come in and ask, "Do you have a Protools system?".

I've was a former "Protools" user before "Vegas Pro" came along. I know how much better Vegas is than Protools on many aspects. The problem is that most musicians don't and they've all "heard" the name "Protools" when it comes to recording. You must convince them that "Vegas" is a better program. That is easy to do, if you are a fluent user of Vegas, and can show them the ease of use, if they have seen an engineer working with "Protools" in the past. I have awed many "Protools" clients, by showing them Vegas....after I do that....then I say, "Oh yeah and I can professionally edit Video too and do CD mastering with this program also. Can Protools do that? There answer..."well...no". If they still aren't convinced, I keep a copy of "Protools Free" on my desk top also, so I can say, "Yes...I have Protools, but this other program by Sonic Foundry called "Vegas" is much better. For kicks I have even redirected my "Protools Free" icon on my desktop to point to Vegas. There are also many "Professional" hard disk audio editors made by "NEVE" and "SSL", which costs thousands of dollars more than a Protools system. These studios that use these systems don't have a hard time losing customers, because they don't have a "Protools" system. They usually just laugh at the person for insulting them by asking this question and tell them how much better their choice of editor is so much better than a "Protools" system. I worked in a studio that owned 15 "AMS NEVE audiophile systems". Those cost about $40,000 each for an 8 track editor. They, didn't have any problems losing clients and could afford to buy these editors along with Neve consoles. I guess the point I'm therefore trying to make is, if you're losing clients, because of the name of Vegas, then you aren't a good enough sales person and deserve to lose those clients anyways.

I do agree though, that "Vegas Video" was a bad choice for the latest name of Vegas. But you have to look at the history of the program. Originally, it was "Vegas Pro", which was audio only. Then it migrated to "Vegas Audio" and "Vegas Video". I'm sure this was to attract "Video" software users with the latest video features added, although "Vegas Video" had all the audio functions of "Vegas Audio". This seemed to cause confusion having 2 apps, which did the same thing. So Sonic Foundry recombined it all back into just "Vegas Video" for the next release. I'm an audio user that is familiar with Vegas from the start and I don't feel the audio developement has suffered at all. There have been some great features released on both sides for the lastest "Vegas Video 3" release. CD architect features being added in a multitrack environment being one of them. Does Protools have this feature??? NO!!! There is a problem though explaining to clients that you're using a program called "Vegas Video" for doing audio work. Now that Vegas is now again ONE complete program, it should migrate the name back to "Vegas Pro 4" for the next release and you have both audio and video covered along with the name "Vegas" that Sonic Foundry has been marketing.

rednroll

An interesting point edna, is that long ago,had we beenm given some of the " missing" features in Vegas, it might have so much higher a stature than now and make this a non issue.

Its funny though. You tell em " vegas" and they dont know what to think

you tell em " cakewalk" or " cubase " and they go " Damn foo, I got dat shiznit at home. Watchoo tryin to pull ? "

Why do we feel the need to hide the full name of our preferred record app ? It certainly does seem to be a real factor.

Ben, it wasnt Arnar who didn't understand the subtle irrelevance of the name Vegas Video, it was his potential clients. Mine would be equally skeptical. The world is fickle.

I guess I attrack clients differently. Most of my clients come to me because, they've been recommended by another client and have heard my work. The clients that I already have, know that I work effeciently and competitantly with the tools that I use. It's the engineer/artist that makes the painting, not the paintbrush they choose to work with. If a potential client leaves because they don't like the paintbrush I'm using, that is ok with me. They will go to another studio that has protools and return back to me on their next project because they didn't get the sound quality they where expecting. So far, I've only lost 1 potential client, because their stuff was on a CDR with a Protools OMF file. I really don't look at that situation as losing a client though, since they obviously already had been doing their work at another studio that had Protools. So I lost "A job"....big deal, that's just the nature of the business that we all have to deal with. There was similar situations in the past with Adat Vs. DA-88 Vs. 2 inch tape. If the client has never heard of "Vegas", tell them the same company that makes "Sound Forge". Sound Forge, has almost as big of a name as Protools. Obviously the clients that you lose because of the software you use, are newer clients that have not worked in the studio much. More experienced clients, which have already gone through the studio learning curve, actually are more interested in the types of microphones,pre-amps and effect processors you use.

why do you gotta troll every post?

You said it yourself you DONT record albums for a living, so shut up about it

this IS our livelihood and ANY little bit that helps is less chance of starving that month so save the troll posts

Hi Pipeline, surely your studio isn't a complete cliché-list of what a studio is "supposed to have", is it? Aren't there tools you just know work even though the client won't understand? For example, I use a Behringer Composer compressor for various things. Most audio pros would find it laughable, but it's a tool I use under certain circumstances, and you know what: my mixes still sound good. I wouldn't use the Composer across a main mix, but then again you never know depending on the circumstances.

There's got to be a point where you have to say: "Client, I've got ears and experience. Trust me. You called me because you like my work."

The Vegas Video/Audio thing could apply to countless studio elements. Let's look at it another way: I own a Mackie 1604 VLZ mixer. I think it sounds pretty good. Those aren't Great River preamps in there but there good for me (although I will get a couple of higher-end channels later). I don't need to tell many people here that, to the commercial studio world, THE MACKIES ARE A JOKE. Go to rec.audio.pro and tell them your studio uses Mackie, you'll see what kind of response you'll get.

This can happen with almost any part of your studio, whether it's with your choice of main monitors, your desk, your computer ("What?! You don't use a MAC?!" type stuff), your patch bay, cabling, whatever. You can't please everybody. You've got to use what you use, and use it well. Not all of us can afford 48 channels of Rupert Neve, you know what I mean?

Anyway, just my thoughts. DE

"why do you gotta troll every post?
You said it yourself you DONT record albums for a living, so shut up about it
this IS our livelihood and ANY little bit that helps is less chance of starving that month so save the troll posts"

This is a "User" forum for Vegas.....guess what??? I'm a Vegas User. If you don't like my posts then use the "ignore user" option of the forum. I DO record albums and master them also. No I don't have to depend on it for a living anymore, but I did about a year ago, when I was running my own studio business. Craig Anderson, who writes for EQ and Keyboard magazines, doesn't record albums for a living either, but does do projects yet in the studio and gives helpful recording advice to users every month in a magazine and his advice is widely used by many users....myself being one of them.

If you record albums for a living then why don't you offer some useful advice in these forums for once, instead of complaining about "MY posts"... or whining some more about, "Can somebody help me fix my P4 RME problem"...or "Why doesn't Vegas have ASIO" or "I guess it's a trip to Cubendo"....Guess what? Nobody f**king cares about your whinning or cares to listen to it. Why don't you offer a shred of useful information for once!!!???? This forum is NOT YOUR tech support webpage, and none of us here get's paid to fix YOUR problems or to even LISTEN to them. [edited]

Will you boneheads please take your sniping elsewhere?

Info/advice/theorizing/questions are always welcome but spare us the rest.

Thank you.

hehehe....Word

Actually as a newcomer to this board i have noticed a lot of this "catfighting" and to tell you the truth i think its quite damaging to the board as a whole.

I find myself trying to rephrase my comments in order not to piss anyone off or appear to be "whining" as you call it.

Whining is ok i think .....actually, expressing yourself should be ok, right?
As long as people can stay away from "fighting"

There have been quite varied opinions about the initial post obviously but i repect all of them and see no need to start fighting about it.

When i said it bothered me that the program i love is called Vegas video then its simply because of the fact that i have lost jobs because of it.

Sure i can say to my clients that VegasVideo is the thing or even get all defensive about it (i seem to go with the latter for some reason).

Im a newcomer to this business here in Reykjavik/Iceland and i dont have the reputation yet to get all cocky(hope i spelled that right) and tell my clients"take it or leave it"

untill im established in this business i dont need those little things working against me and its got nothing to do with my attitude towards my clients.

Cheers

peace;)

Iceland! Do you know the guys from Purker Pilnik?

I understand your dilema, and have lived through it for many years, being a non-Protools user any longer. My posts to you, where suggestions to help you sell your system better. I believe I gave you a few suggestions right?

1. Same company that makes "Sound Forge".
2. Has even more features than Protools, like CD redbood mastering, Video Editing, Unlimited Tracks.
3. Download Protools free, for the those avid Protools users. This allows you to get familiar with the Protools environment and you will see 100's more advantages Vegas has over Protools and you can show them, that you own Protools, yet choose to use Vegas over it.
4. Leave the word "Video" off of the name and just say "Vegas" or "Vegas Pro" or "Vegas Audio"....or "Sonic Foundry's Vegas"...hell even just say "Sound Forge", most clients don't know that Sound Forge is only a 2 track editor.

Studio work is one-half being a good engineer, the other half is perception and salesmanship. Shoot, as I mentioned before I worked in a studio that had 8 track AMS Neve audiophiles. Vegas, kicks its ass big time in features and performance. That didn't keep them from charging $180/hr for that 8 track editor, or $315/hr for their big 16-track editor rooms. Their rooms looked immaculate, and their engineers where competitant and got the job done with the tools they had. So basically, you need to work on your salesman skills and you will learn that in time, and part of that learning is missing a few jobs.

I'm just wondering what words of advice the guy that records albums everyday for his lively hood gave to you and yet has the audacity to tell me to "shutup"?

Exactly Arnar, every little bit helps, theres no reason to hurt.

If its a major that DOESNT know you, youre prolly gonna get sunk. It wouldnt matter what the name was, if its not Alsihad, they dont want it.

Some people only have one thing stuck in their heads, if you dont have their favorite mic for instance, or tape format.

Its a rough one, some projects you just gotta give up. Hopefully theyll hear your work before seeing what you got, but MANY MANY MANY clients book based on the gear and NOTHING else.
In my case if it comes down to it I'll say " look around this room, you think we wouldnt have bought PT if we wanted it ?"
or tell em youll be glad to rent one, and add it to their rate