IMX 50 problem . Anyone using it?

craftech wrote on 5/21/2011, 2:19 PM

I read a post by Scorpio Productions some time ago where he said that he downconverted using the NTSC version of IMX 50 as an intermediate. Because it was 720 x 486 he said he got good results frameserving it.

I am having absolutely no success getting Vegas to recognize it after it is rendered.

I took the full 1920 x 1080i timeline and rendered it to Sony MXF choosing the HD-EX 1920 x 1080-60i template and changed the Video from HD to IMX, the AR from 4:3 to 16:9, and the Bitrate to 50 CBR.

If I look at the rendered IMX 50 fle in VLC Media player it looks and sounds fine.

If I bring it into Vegas it builds the peaks first, but when I drag it to the timeline, the audio consists of random vertical lines and the later part of the video consists of only blank video frames.

Anyone know what the problem might be?

Thanks,

John

Comments

erikd wrote on 5/22/2011, 4:08 AM

I'll give this a try...
you said, "I took the full 1920 x 1080i timeline and rendered it to Sony MXF choosing the HD-EX 1920 x 1080-60i template and changed the Video from HD to IMX, the AR from 4:3 to 16:9, and the Bitrate to 50 CBR."

First question is why did you do it this way? Why not use the template that comes with Vegas MXF titled "NTSC MPEG IMX 50"?

I have to say that I have been rendering my XDCAM 1440x1080 to this setting for delivery to SD Broadcast and have not had any problems. I can play the files back in Vegas fine too.

Sorry, if I misunderstood what you were asking.

Erik

craftech wrote on 5/23/2011, 4:51 AM

I didn't even see that template. Same difference though.

What I found was that I had an old K-Lite Codec Pack on my computer, It definitely was giving me problems with more than just IMX50. I uninstalled it and now I will try it again.

Thanks for the reply:

John

erikd wrote on 5/23/2011, 11:57 AM

Okay, good luck to you.

craftech wrote on 5/23/2011, 1:54 PM

This isn't working.

I can render the hour and 22 minute 1920 x 1080-60i timeline to (MXF) IMX 50 from Vegas 8.0c.

The resulting file plays fine in the Sony XD CAM viewer and in VLC Media player.

If I import it into Vegas there are large sections with blank frames and an audio consisting of Vertical lines in random places.

So I can't frameserve it to Procoder.

If I open it as a source file in Procoder, it recognizes it, but the estimated render to Mpeg 2 at 7000 CBR is 40 hours. That's not right.

The IMX 50 is an I-Frame only format.

Could that be causing a problem?

Does anyone at all know anything about IMX 50?

John

erikd wrote on 5/23/2011, 11:15 PM

May I suggest that you try a few different things to troubleshoot. First, I would render only a 1 minute section and try to import that. Does it import correctly and play okay?

What types of files are on your timeline? What about trying to render to a track inside Vegas? This would at least avoid the importing step.

When I did my IMX50 renders, I only had a 30 minute program. Yet, because of file sizes, I would break the render up into 5 files. If you can get smaller parts of your piece to render correctly then you can slowly divide and conquer until maybe you find the problem area.

Erik

craftech wrote on 5/24/2011, 12:55 PM

First, I would render only a 1 minute section and try to import that. Does it import correctly and play okay?
=======
Yes
=========
What types of files are on your timeline? What about trying to render to a track inside Vegas? This would at least avoid the importing step.
==========
MXF files created by Sony Clip Browser from EX1 footage. They work fine for everything else I did with them,

Rendering to a new track produced the exact same results.

If I render a loop of the two sections that are blank I get video AND audio, but the video contains Flash Frames. I haven't seen those in years. Not since it was a big issue (that was never resolved) in Vegas 2, 3, and 4.

So the results were unusable. Then there is the audio issue. Render a loop, audio is fine. Render the whole thing, audio consists of random vertical lines.

Personally, I think I have a codec conflict. DNxHD conflicting with who knows what or some other conflict. Latest Quicktime vs ?

Ready to give up on this. I contacted Silverlight productions, but no response yet.

John

craftech wrote on 5/25/2011, 4:07 AM

This time I tried an hour video and broke it up into two 30 minute renders. No blank frames, but there were flash frames. The audio did the same thing. Renders normally for around 8 minutes then records random vertical lines.

Tried rendering without any audio by muting the audio tracks in case the audio was causing the flash frame issue. Same difference.

Too bad because the HD to SD for DVD has real potential using this method.

The IMX render downconverts 1920 x 1080-60i to 720 x 486 with a very high bitrate and it looks very clean. The conversion to Mpeg 2 at 720 x 480 goes really fast and has the potential to look really good.

But I can't get it to work on my setup.

John

erikd wrote on 5/25/2011, 6:10 AM

I feel your pain John. All I can add is that it works well for me and my SD broadcast deliveries. I am on a XP32bit system so nothing special.

Erik

craftech wrote on 5/25/2011, 6:59 AM

Thanks for trying to help Erik.

I am trying something I just found in the Vegas manual and online help for Vegas 8.
==========================================================
When you render video to any of the following formats, unedited video frames are passed through without recompression (smart rendering):
=======================================================
That box is checked by default in Vegas 8 so I unchecked it and am trying it again.

I believe that is the equivalent of "Smart Render" that is in Vegas 9 and 10.

John

craftech wrote on 5/25/2011, 1:12 PM

That didn't work either.

John

erikd wrote on 5/25/2011, 11:12 PM

Anyway to try it on a different computer? Just as a test to see if it is a codec conflict or something else on your main computer.

Erik

craftech wrote on 9/28/2011, 3:36 PM

I revisited this again using an entirely different computer (newer) and a 38 minute video.

Rendered 1920 x 1080 60i footage converted to mxf (matched media settings) to Sony MXF / NTSC IMX 50 Widescreen template.

Same results in Vegas 8.0c

Around 8 minutes of audio renders normally followed by randomly spaced vertical lines to the end.

Video contains flash frames (sections with frames from other parts of the video).

Plays perfectly in VLC Media Player and the Sony XDCAM Viewer.

Tried opening the file in Procoder 3. It opens as a source file.

Rendered only video stream (no audio) to SD Mpeg 2 widescreen template and it LOOKS FANTASTIC, but plays in jerky motion and stuttering.

This has the potential to be one of the best looking HD to SD DVD methods to date because it is already scaled to almost the right SD size (720 x 486) when you do the render if I can figure out how to make Vegas 8 render it properly. It is an HD I-Frame only file at 720 x 486. Going from that to 720 x 480 should be easy.

Does anyone else want to mess with this method and post back?

Try something 30 minutes long. I don't think short video clips will exhibit the issue. More realistic video lengths will. TWO different computers, same problem.

EDIT: Scorpio Productions doesn't participate in the forums any longer, but he posted a problem in 2009 that sounds similar.

He said,

I'm editing XDCAM SD (DVCAM) MXF files. I have clips that are one to two hours long. I discovered that with any of the clips, I will lose a full 15 frames of audio (one GOP) at the following places: 08:55:03, 26:35:10, 44:15:38, and probably others at the same interval multiples.

Anyone know about the "replacement .dlls"?

He posted it previously in 2008.

He said,

All my clips are over 45 minutes long, so I'm not sure exactly how long is needed to trigger the problem, but I'm thinking probably anything longer than where it stops, 17 minutes 40 seconds 8 frames. This is exactly where the audio stopped and audio waveform flatlined for every clip I tried.

John

Logan5 wrote on 10/10/2011, 7:21 PM

Yes, I use it for for some stations infomercials delivery or before I encode for the AJA card for print to tape.

Anyway, maybe you have tried this or it has been discussed before.
I had a similar issues in the past with IMX renders.

I'm using V9
What I did to make sure it worked.( can't remember what really fixed it..seems like #1 was what made it work)
1. Render from a project set with the NTSC IMX 50 settings ONLY.
2. Render your show into a non mxf or IMX file first, then drop into a NTSC IMX 50 project for rendering.
3. Nest your 1920 x 1080 project into a NTSC IMX 50 project project for rendering.

craftech wrote on 10/10/2011, 9:17 PM

What I did to make sure it worked.( can't remember what really fixed it..seems like #1 was what made it work)
=======================
Please explain. I think that is what I did.

Render as / Sony MXF / NTSC IMX 50 Widescreen.

John

Logan5 wrote on 10/12/2011, 5:13 PM

The project settings must be the same as your render settings.

If your Render Settings are: NTSC IMX 50 Widescreen.
Make sure your Project Settings you render from are : NTSC IMX 50 Widescreen

If your project is HD, try nesting or rendering to a file type(not IMX) and drop into a NTSC IMX 50 Widescreen project before you render.

The more I think about it, V8 could be the main issue. Maybe get the V10 demo and do your render from there. Careful not to save any of your projects in V10.

Good luck.