Keep the faith, it's coming. Like the army, Sony is a big organization.

The rumor I heard was Fall 2005, but as this thread points out this idea has been around a while.

why would "clients" care what you edit video/create projects with? If they like it, they like it.

They shouldn't care, but they do. That's the way it is in many fields. For example, try to get investors for a NASCAR car with a Hyundai engine and see how it goes.

Clients have heard that AVID is what the pros use. They want to hire pros. If you're not using an AVID you're not a pro. (That's how their thinking goes.) AVID and FCP have had WAAAAYYYY more publicity than Vegas, and they have huge films under their belts.

There are "Clients" and "Clients"

Some are involved in media themselves, Advertising Agencies for instance, so they may well have their biases.

My clients are experts in what they do, which is nothing to do with media, and they are happy to leave me to use whatever software I like.

Bottom line...

A peice of paper will NEVER say you're a good editor unless it says "And the oscar goes to... (your name)"

Learn to edit, stop worrying about the software. Vegas has more features than Avid Express Pro and Final Cut. Vegas is not perfect. If you're comfortable editing in Vegas... then learn to edit in VEGAS. And by "learn to edit" i dont mean learn to use the program. I mean learn how to edit footage into a story that is an artistic expression of yourself. Learn the art... and if you become good, then you can start taking certification classes and blast through them in a breeze... and you'll get your peice of paper saying "i can use X-brand software"

If you're worrying about getting certified, that means you're looking for work... Are you looking for work because its work, or because you're a capable editor that feels he/she is ready for the big show.

The paper is really meaningless.

I've proved it in my own carear having lead developement of 3d animation software tools, as a senior artist on videogames and cinematic artwork... i've become a respected 3d artist/animator/technical director and i've branched into direction and editing.... and now i'm stuck in the middle trying to find otu what i really love...

But all that i've accomplished has been without any "paper" :) It's been by quality of work. I've had very little college experience, not a CS major, or a computer arts major.... And yet i'm capable of modelling/rigging/animating film quality 3d animated characters for feature films/games....

No Peice of paper will ever be evidence of how good you are. I've dealt with MANY 3d artists applying for jobs who think because they went to school "xyz" that they are ready for ILM or WETA :) And their work looks like crap

The WORK matters. You can be a dumb, geeky, recluse, a crazy screaming, pink haired, peirced, one armed man, or an uptight buisness suit wearing monkey... What matters is YOUR WORK.

A boss wants to know... "What can you do for me, and how well can you do it?"

A peice of paper certifying you for software xyz, describes neither of these. It only proves you pressed the right buttons on screen and answered all the answers on a test correctly. Good monkey... NOW GO BE AN ARTIST.....

You're DEMO reel matters. SO GET TO WORK and stop worrying about a peice of paper :)

ARTISTS do not worry about "am i certified" You sound like a corperate suit... GET TO EDITING... do your work and stand by it... promote yourself, send your work out, and get going.

You can list all the software you want on your resume... it means crap until they see how well you use it.

PeterWright & Jackie_Chan_Fan, I was talking about Hollywood. I have no experience elsewhere. Out here there are some pieces of software that everyone, from the kids in the mailroom all the way up to studio CEO's know; for example AVID and Maya. It's stupid for them to care what software you're using, but oftentimes they do. And to a certain extent it doesn't matter if you have an Oscar or not. I was a co-founder of a visual effects company whose team had just come from doing Titanic and we STILL had studios complaining (or at least very nervous) that we weren't using the software they'd heard of. Several times we were required to do tests to prove the software.

A certification is not 'meaningless', it is an acknowledgement of a persons' aptitude with a given software in this case. Yea, Bill Gates and Michael Dell are college dropouts, but there are thousands of people who need degrees in order to take advantage of opportunities.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about the Vegas certification process. I'll never be a full time editor, but its always fun to have an excuse to work with the program more and get better.

>>>>I was a co-founder of a visual effects company whose team had just come from doing Titanic and we STILL had studios complaining (or at least very nervous) that we weren't using the software they'd heard of. Several times we were required to do tests to prove the software.

If you are going to go around citing these obscure indie films I could see why studio execs were nervous.

That's a great story.

It has been suggested a few times on this board that you should get an Avid mousepad and just have that out as you edit it Vegas when you deal with a cient. There are a lot of clients who wouldn't know what Avid looked like anyway. Perhaps Sony when they finally start promoting Sony Media Software as a brand can come up with Sony Media Software mousepads and Posters. When they get certification going they should make up Sony Certified shirts. I kind of like Sony Certified on the left side of the chest where the alligator or polo player logo would go and then on the sleeve it should have embrodiered which programs you have been certified in.

my screen savers and desktop background images were always AVID graphics

certification to me is useless. I would never hire someone based on some certification.

Most post studios i know of will hire you reguardless of software preference if they're willing to retrain you (larger studios will). If you're good and they see your talent, they will take the time to invest in teaching you their method/software. Certainly in 3d post production or feature film 3d animation artists jump from product to product all the time and constantly have to adjust to each systems pipeline. The software becomes a tool and the artist is easily thought each tool if they're a large enough studio.

I know editing is a bit different. In 3d there is a lot of custom tools developed and retraining is always a factor to some extent. In editing... Of course if you're applying for an AVID job... its best you know avid... and having a cert paper saying you know avid is a benefit.... however it's your demo reel that proves how good of an editor you are, and how well you REALLY know the software.

Back in the early 3D boom, mid 90s T-rex crazed wide eyed kids wishing they had SGI indigos would run through all kinds of art school computer arts programs and most ended up nowhere... despite their peice of paper :)

Determination, and your self progression is all that really matters.... and how much you care about your work will show in your work. That speaks so much more than a cert paper.

But of course... if someone is advertising "I need an AVID editor" then yes it would of course help.... but it is by no means an "in" Your reel is.

my step mother is a multiple emmy award winning director for one of the 3 major networks and i've been to editing sessions at emmy award winning editing studios...

But what does that mean? You havent never seen her work, or the studios work....

Thats my point. I can sit here and talk about how great i think i am... but in reality until you see my work... i'm just a guy trying to get a job. And thats how you come off if you're just relying on a certification.

The work comes first... (and the emmy stuff.. its all true btw and yes they use avid ;))

A certification course is a good way to get time on a machine you would not normally have access to. That is the real benefit of training. But you probably wont get enough time on the machine to really refine your skills if you're starting out. If you're a seasoned editor... well you already know avid ;)

But of course training is always good, and a paper saying you completed is nice... but its not a job getter. Anyone can be taught to push buttons and be given a paper for it...... not everyone is a great editor.

For example on my resume, I list...

Photoshop
Softimage 3D
Softimage XSI
Alias Maya
3D-studio max (worked for discreet for a few years)
Digital Fusion
AfterFX
etc etc

I dont list any certifications... cuz... I have none :) Looking at my work, its clear i know how to use all of those programs quite well... And thats more so the point.

You can get a job just as easy without a cert if you just list what programs you know and use.... and simply acompany it with your reel.

Of course if the a certification is a job requirement stated in the job listing... I would still send a real without being certified... if you're good enough.

Have no fear about it. Swim with the sharks, there's many of them. Its a competitive feild and it really sucks at times... Everyone wants an edge over the next guy... but i cant tell you how many folks i know that talk more than they actually do. I generally associate those people with certification papers and the such. It's more important to me, what you can do, not how well you can BS me on your resume :)

And again i should stress that i'm writing this a bit "in character" as i dont hire editors, and i work in the 3d animation industry as an animator. So i'm not the end all be all of the editing world. However, I have been responsible for finding talented artists to fill positions in 3d animation on projects i've worked on, and I myself.. have gotten all of my jobs based on what i can do, not my resume. There were plenty of times when my resume looked blank :) But my work clearly was very good. I havent been turned down for an animation job. I've turned down jobs offered to me by major studios.... Why? I'm CRAZY.. hehe but i'm on my own mission in life i guess...

But the point is... DO your work.. do it well, and be passionate it about it. If training is the only way you're going to get access to the higher end avid systems... GO FOR IT... GET THAT CERT PAPER... but you're going to have to put in a lot of time to really fit like a glove with any program... and you still have to worry about becoming a better editor.

There is no right or wrong way... It's just my experience that certifications have meant little.

And i'll end with this... I took a Softimage3D class so many years ago. (back when it was an SGI only app) :) They may tell you how to click here, and make this, and what it does... but they NEVER explain how to do the complex things that you MUST figure out/learn to really accomplish something artistically.

They can explain how to do this, and what happens... but they never really can explain how to really use something. Thats the point about a cert paper... At the end of the day, paper in hand... you stil must learn how to use the buttons you've learned to press.

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that getting a certification means instant job opportunities or awards. Showing an employer you have a high degree of knowledge is never a bad thing. Whether or not you can perform at your profession is dependent on a lot of factors and improving your skills can't hurt.

oh i agree that it cant hurt. I would just hate for someone to talk themselves out of applying somewhere because of it. I mean lets face it, we're artists and as artists we can be VERY hard on each other... AND even more harder on ourselves.

So i just want to get the idea out there that it's a persons work that really matters and dont let things stop you. Some people cant afford to pay for an avid course etc Art really has no limit other than yourself and too often we limit outselves over silly hangups such as "which software is the best" or things like this.

... and its more comforting to know that at the end of the day, its your work that gets judged.

I once had a college professor tell me that the degree I would be getting would only open the door. It would be my own abilities that would make it possible for me to walk though the opening. vis a vis certification. In todays market where hundreds are applying for one position, human resource managers use paper to sort down to a manageable level, before they even talk to the first prospective employee. Can you guess how many qualified people never even get considered?
You know, if Sony is going to go higher with Vegas, as most of you in that area wants it to, (that area meaning TV, commercial movies, big production units, etc) SONY should use its programs and boast about it. In the credit roll, under SONY DIGITAL PICTURES, it should be saying, "Editing of digital footage by Vegas Professional Software." Unless SONY sees Vegas staying in the niche its currently in? On the other hand, if its gets much better than it is, will we be able to afford it? Will we be able not to afford it?

Do you mean in Hollwood Films released by Sony Pictures?

You have an optimistic sense of the layout of the Sony Corporation, kind of the tail wagging the dog. Let's take a look at where Vegas fits.

Sony Pictures Digital bought the desktop assets of Sonic Foundry. This subsidiary was eventually renamed renamed Sony Media Software.

Sony Pictures Digital is a division of Sony Pictures. That is, it's the smaller fish, it's not the part that makes the movies. When they bought Vegas and the others, this is how SPD was described: Sony Pictures Digital manages digital production and online assets of Sony Pictures Entertainment and is a subsidiary of Sony Corporation of America.

Look at http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/ today. At no place on the page does it mention Sony Pictures Digital. If you go to the Sony Pictures site Sony Pictures Digital Entertainment (which what how they refer to the subsidiary now) seems to be heavily involved in making games for PCs and cell phones. I don't think that name shows up in movie credits. Sony seems to positioning the Media Software group outside Sony Pictures. This is probably a good thing, since it led to a lot of confusion anyway.

Also the way Hollywood works, it's very, very rare that a studio exec would dictate to a producer that the types of tools the editor hired by the produced should use. I would guess that it's pretty rare these days that a company does entirely in-house production. Pixar, comes to mind but I don't think that's true for many others.

I try to be optimistic all the time. I'm optimistic that SONY will fix the little quirks that plague Vegas. And do you notice that the tail does in fact wag the dog? Even short stubby ones move the dog a little. There no reason that one division of a corp can't help another. Again, optimistically. One CEO to another. If I was the CEO of the software division, I'd call up the Entertainment CEO and say, "Would it kill ya to do at least one movie with Vegas????!" If it doesn't work out I won't call you again." "We'll even send SPOT over to help ya out." I just finished burning a short wedding DVD using DVDA2. It plays great on two different DVD players - one a +R player and the other a -R player. However, it won't play on the computer I burned it on. Cyberlink Power DVD, and even Nero won't recognize the disc. Talk about quirky.

And do you notice that the tail does in fact wag the dog? Even short stubby ones move the dog a little.

I think this may be the best reply I've ever had on this board.
You dream big and I respect that.

I do grant that I can be a bit of a pessimist. Even so, the guy who reports to the guy to the guy who reports to the CEO is not himsefl a CEO. Sony only has one CEO, that I know of.

Also how about baby steps for now, how about a theatrical documentary made with Vegas? I don't think there have been any wide-release ones done in Vegas.


Does the DVD play in Windows Media?

Thanks, and i would be happy with Vegas making baby steps.

Nope, the disc is not even accessible for exploring. I can go to the folder where it was prepared and access the menu vob and the video vob and they play. But the disc is dead to my PC. Funny thing though, when I ran neroinfo toolkit, it said my system ASPI was not installed. Must have lost that somewhere. guess I'll go looking on the net for a copy.