Is extracting a CD or DVD breaking the law?

Tanjy wrote on 6/14/2002, 2:13 PM

I don't work at a video or media company, but at my job I had to cut video clips from some Hollywood movies to be included in a training seminar. This was at the request of a high level executive at the company who wanted to demonstrate a point in his presentation.

We bought the DVDs so I thought, instead of going through the rigamarole of capturing off a VCR, let me try extracting the parts I need and convert them to MPEG files. They're short and there are all kinds of utilities out there that let you do this. Besides, the VCR capture workstation is down at the moment.

Well, someone (a lawyer) went past my desk and practically freaked out. She said I was breaking the law and could get into big trouble for this. Since when does quoting or using excerpts for discussion purposes make you a criminal? I thought by law there is such a thing as "fair use".

Does anybody at Sonic Foundry or elsewhere know exactly what the rules are for extracting copyrighted CDs and DVDs for personal or educational use?

I've been reading lately about the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and it seems that these activities are indeed illegal because you are violating its copyright anti-circumvention provisions:
http://www.wipout.net/essays/0207yerrick.htm

I'm wondering if it's just a matter of time before the entertainment industry starts cracking down on software companies like Sonic Foundry for providing circumvention technology (CD extraction, video captures, etc.).

There's an upcoming bill in Congress called the CBDTPA which will kill the Audio Home Recording Act and definitely make digital extraction and analog-to-digital conversion illegal:
http://www.digitalconsumer.org/overview.html
http://www.eff.org

I'm still trying to make heads & tails of all this. VCRs and other analog devices are being phased out and the big media companies are copyrighting everything under the sun. Once the migration to digital is complete does that mean we will not be able to copy ANYTHING?

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Comments

Chienworks wrote on 6/16/2002, 7:51 PM

Hmmmmmmmmm. I decode and extract information from a DVD every time i watch one. So do all of you. (Dramatic pause to let that sink in ...) Does that make watching illegal? Ooops. If that's the case then i'm returning every DVD i've ever purchased and i expect the producers to give me an immediate full refund.

Back to the original question, the DVD producers claim that extracting or breaking their encryption is illegal. But is it really illegal (i.e. are their hard and fast laws forbidding it) or is it simply against their stated licensing policy? If the copyright laws permit the end users "fair use", then the claim that extraction is illegal is itself illegal.

I don't know the answer, but i wouldn't take the media industry's claim at face value. Obviously distributing copyrighted works outside the fair use provisions is illegal. But just because someone slaps a tag on their product doesn't override existing laws.

BillyBoy wrote on 6/16/2002, 8:24 PM

The claim that extracting or breaking some encryption scheme is illegal is on legal thin ice and I'll wager will not withstand court challenges.

Can we say a locksmith opening the door to someone's home because the owner forgot his key has committed a felony by breaking and entering? Hardly. How about someone in the middle of the night seeing his neighbor's house on fire, he breaks a window, enters and drags out the unconscious occupants. Would you call him a hero or a burglar?

Be very careful trying to put too fine a point on any law, there's always unintended consequencies. Trying to protect intellectual property rights is one thing. Interfering with my right as owner of any DVD I may purchase is something else.

One could argue you are only applying due diligence in making a "copy" of the DVD in case something happens to the original beyond your control. You could set groudwork for such an arguement by illustrating how a disc may be damaged if not stored in a jewel case, or how a disc may jam in your DVD player and get scratched. You're only "protecting" your investment. Or what if the disc only plays once or twice and won't play anymore. Lots of reasons you may wish to make a backup.

Remember, a person's rights can not be superseded by some greedy corportations's so-called rights won by fattening some politician's reelection fund which is really how the stupid law in question got passed and like most bad laws sooner or later it gets repealed or branded as unconstitutional.

Tanjy wrote on 6/16/2002, 8:36 PM

Seeker,

<A lot of people seem to think if you don't like a law, it is OK to break it. I am not one of those people.>

If people didn't break or challenge unfair laws then we'd all be saluting the British flag and have King George the 1st printed on our dollar bills.

BillyBoy wrote on 6/16/2002, 9:08 PM

Yea, no kidding. The United States was founded on civil disobedience because of taxation without representation. Basically a handful of guys with everything to loose offically started a rebellion against the British crown with a powerfully worded document called The Declaration of Independence signed July 4th 1776 which offically started the American Revolution. This of course was viewed by King George as a act of treason which he tried to stop with armed force. One of the biggest blunders of all time.

Thankfully, two thirds of the American colonists thought starting our own country was a good idea, but a full third didn't and remained loyal to the British. The rest is history.

Tanjy wrote on 6/16/2002, 11:59 PM

Chienworks,

<But just because someone slaps a tag on their product doesn't override existing laws.>

Oh yeah?

The sad fact is that in the digital world under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, your "fair use" rights are completely overridden by the copyright owner's rights to encrypt that information and criminalize your efforts to access it.

Example:

Here is an actual list of warnings found in an Adobe e-book version of "Alice in Wonderland" (a public domain title no less). It includes forbidding you to read this book aloud to your child. I'm not making this up!
- "No text selections can be copied from this book to the clipboard."
- "No printing is permitted of this book."
- "This book cannot be lent or given to someone else."
- "This book cannot be read aloud."

There are lots of articles about this. Here are some:
http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,22914,00.html
or
http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2000/ebook.html

Well, someone cracked this e-book's encryption. It was a Russian programmer named Dimiti Sklyarov working on his computer science PhD thesis. As soon as he gets to Las Vegas and gives his presentation, boom... he's in handcuffs and thrown in jail, facing 5 years in jail and a $500,000 fine. Read this NY Times article about that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html?todaysheadlines

So... here's the copyright owner (Adobe) brutally stomping on your "fair use" rights to read aloud to your child or copy & paste excerpts. And here's the programmer protecting your "fair use" rights by cracking the copyright owner's encryption.

Who does the court side with? The copyright owner.

Kiss "fair use" goodbye.

p_l wrote on 6/17/2002, 12:36 AM

New technology is currently being developed that will resolve the issue;)

http://bbspot.com/News/2002/01/mdvd.html

http://bbspot.com/News/2001/10/riaa.html

http://bbspot.com/News/2001/08/encrypt.html