Is Sony going the evil way?

aboammar wrote on 4/29/2016, 10:55 PM
The new version of Catalyst Suite is now available BUT ONLY as a subscription licensing model!!!

https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5198

I am totally against the subscription model when it is NOT an option!

Will Sony do the same to all software like the evil "Adobe"? I hope not, especially not for the upcoming Vegas Pro 14! Otherwise it will be disastrous!

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Comments

John_Cline wrote on 4/29/2016, 11:03 PM
Businesses need to have a relatively steady revenue stream to pay salaries for continued development. Those forum members that proudly state that they are still using an older version of Vegas have done nothing to support SCS's long term financial health.
aboammar wrote on 4/29/2016, 11:26 PM
I agree, but it should be as an option, or at least when my subscription ends, I can still use the software without further updates! But with the current subscription model, when you don't renew your subscription, you can not use the software anymore, and that is just not fair for users who can not afford to pay!

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DGates wrote on 4/29/2016, 11:37 PM
An hyperbolic post by aloammar. You don't see those very often.

(sarcasm)
John_Cline wrote on 4/29/2016, 11:57 PM
Yeah, and I can't afford to pay for a Lamborghini, what's your point?

The Catalyst Suite subscription price is about $17 per month, that's the cost of what, three cups of coffee at Starbucks? If you can't afford a measly $17/month, then you need to rethink your business marketing plan. If you're a hobbyist, then there are plenty of free video editors out there.
aboammar wrote on 4/30/2016, 1:18 AM
@John_Cline, the point is that not every body like you! Not everybody lives in the USA and can afford to pay $17 for 3 cops of coffee! In many countries like mine, we have no Starbucks, thus a cop of coffee cost less than 35 cents, so paying $17.00 a month is too much for many people because the income in such countries is FAR lower than what people get in the US or Europe.

So in average in the US or Europe, if you charge your clients 3K for a cretin project, in countries like mine most people can not charge more than $300 for similar project, so that $17 means a lot to them! I hope you get the idea ...

As for me, I have been using Vegas Pro since its first version (Vegas Audio), and I upgraded to every single version no matter what, whatever I needed to upgrade or not. This also applies to most of my SCS software (Sound Forge, DVD Architect, CD Architect, Cinescore, ACID Pro, Noise Reduction, Sound Forge Audio Studio, and Vegas Movie Studio, etc.) And I did that just to support SCS. I also own Catalyst Edit and Catalyst Prepare, so I am doing my part to support SCS, in case you were wondering!

Also, I bought all Vegas plugins from SCS not from the plugins vendor, also to support SCS..

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ushere wrote on 4/30/2016, 1:40 AM
at present edit isn't worth a cup of hot water ;-)

however, i do agree that software dying if you don't pay subscription is EVIL - it should at least run on your last paid version.

Grazie wrote on 4/30/2016, 1:46 AM
Licensing without continuous improvement - bug fixes and innovative features - is a way to extract the last drop of revenue from any moribund product. How sure are we that the "rump" that's left at Madison, or wherever the engineers are holed-up, will have enough critical mass to support development for our beloved VegasPro? And consequently, any value in taking-out a subscription.

If Catalyst is/has been the Trojan Horse, then the next step would be for the VegasPro marketeers to reassure and convince us Users, there is a great support plan reason to embark on a licensing pathway for VegHeads. Also, my concerns are with the many 3rd Party Plugs I use for client work ALSO jumping aboard the license gravy train. NewBlue? VASST? TWIXTOR? Neat Video? ProDAD? iZotope? It is going to be very seductive for their income generation. John, it may not just be the $17/month? That Lamborghini is starting to look even more impossible than before. As this process rolls out, I can envisage a time when these 3rd party Partners, just throw up their hands.

There is yet another element to this retrograde development: Back in 2005 I was, and have been canvassed, as others have been, for my creative input to make Vegas a better product. For that whole process to have continuity would require more than an efficient licensing department.

The next few months are going to be extraordinary indeed. The death VegasPro? I'm not sure. More like a pseudo-DNR being supported by a license-plasma bag drip.

Drip... Drip.... Tick..... Tock.....Tick..... Tock....

Grazie
Len Kaufman wrote on 4/30/2016, 8:00 AM
Some may consider this OT, but I think it relates:

http://www.geek.com/apps/adobe-will-try-anything-to-stop-a-creative-cloud-cancellation-1644869/
aboammar wrote on 4/30/2016, 8:02 AM
@ushere .. That is the whole point of this post .. at least the software should run on the last paid version .. at the end I did pay for it by paying $204 in 12 months , so I should have the right to own the last paid version!

I would support this subscription model if the software dose not stop running after the last paid update/version .. otherwise it is indeed a subscription EVIL!

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aboammar wrote on 4/30/2016, 8:11 AM
@Len Kaufman .. that link has everything to do with this post .. thanks for sharing it.

That was just one example about how evil Adobe is, and how evil this subscription model can be!

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System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

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Mindmatter wrote on 4/30/2016, 9:36 AM
Grass Valley Edius 8 is what I'm currently looking at, the test version is simply superb, and while not as intuitive as Vegas, it sure eliminates one of its biggest issues: it has a lightning fast preview, and - oh- you can actually stack video cards for performance!!

Looks like Edius will NOT go down the subscription path anytime soon.

I'll stay with V13 as long as possible, but I'm learning and will soon buy Edius. I already dread how V13 will behave on my fiorst 4k project.
VidMus wrote on 4/30/2016, 11:02 AM
aboammar said, "I would support this subscription model if the software dose not stop running after the last paid update/version..."

Please see my thread:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=943329

VidMus wrote on 4/30/2016, 11:03 AM
"Those forum members that proudly state that they are still using an older version of Vegas have done nothing to support SCS's long term financial health."

+1
OldSmoke wrote on 4/30/2016, 12:13 PM
"Those forum members that proudly state that they are still using an older version of Vegas have done nothing to support SCS's long term financial health."

While I partially agree with the statement, it is every company's responsibility to produce a product and market it so that the business is justifiable and sustainable, it is NOT the consumers responsibility,

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

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musicvid10 wrote on 4/30/2016, 1:25 PM
Some forum members have paid for upgrades regularly over the years, have a dozen or more SCS titles registered, and are no longer able to afford upgrades to their systems and software that is working.

riredale wrote on 4/30/2016, 1:28 PM
John Cline, I get your point, but the fact that I proudly tout the virtues of Vegas9 does not make me anti-SCS. Every day I use many, many programs on my PC and apps on my Android phone that are not on some sort of subscription or upgrade path. In fact, I can't think of any that ARE. Out in my workshop I still use a 20-year-old Skilsaw and an equally-old electric drill from Black & Decker. I am thus not currently subsidizing the folks that make those products in order that they might refine them and stay in business. But that's okay with me.

To many people, Vegas 9 and its near-relatives represent a sort of high-water mark. Changes were made afterwards that seemed to detract from the reputation. Until I discover a replacement that can run circles around V9 for the kinds of stuff I do, it makes sense to me that I should continue to happily use it.

Software is a difficult business. One way to bring in money is through subscription. Another way is through increasing market penetration. If Vegas were my baby, I think that's the direction I'd want to go. Free copies of V9 for all students and institutions of higher learning, that sort of thing. Every Sony camcorder gets a free copy. Prime the pump. But of course I'm sure it's a much tougher picture than I paint here.
aboammar wrote on 4/30/2016, 2:27 PM
"Free copies of V9 for all students and institutions of higher learning, that sort of thing. Every Sony camcorder gets a free copy." <<< Very smart idea to get huge big market share and market penetration.. I wish Sony would consider that .. after all, no one is buying version 9 and Sony is not losing anything, instead they are gaining market awareness.

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Kinvermark wrote on 4/30/2016, 2:48 PM
"Software is a difficult business"

As a former software marketing executive I would offer the following:

It is a bit of an all-or-nothing game. If you fall behind your competitors your sales may drop like a stone. On the other hand, when you have something that is in demand you can make hug amounts of profits very quickly! (almost all the expenses are in up front R&D, unit costs are negligible, except for support.)

We used to think of upgrades as a great cash cow - it is way easier to upgrade an existing user than to convert someone using a competitors product.

Personally, I think the problem is an overcrowded marketplace (for NLE's) and a lack of vision/creativity/guts needed to create the next "killer app" for the marketplace. Oddly enough this is also why SCS' attempt to force a subscription model is likely to fail - too many other options.

PeterDuke wrote on 4/30/2016, 7:12 PM
Upgrades have traditionally been for new features. I see no reason to change that. If the software has matured to the point that new features would only be bloat., then the company should downsize. I see no justification to pay them to just sit around.

If Adobe were to create Photoshop, Premiere, etc. now from scratch, the prices would have to be very high to recoup their costs in a a one-off licence purchase. This would justify a subscription model for a limited time. However, these programs have evolved from simpler versions, and the costs have already been recouped over the years.

I have voluntarily upgraded Vegas every time since version 7. I will not voluntarily submit to a punitive and indefinite subscription model.

You can buy your mobile phone outright at a high cost or you can pay it off over say two years at a lower cost per month. Software should be the same.
Kinvermark wrote on 4/30/2016, 8:49 PM
"You can buy your mobile phone outright at a high cost or you can pay it off over say two years at a lower cost per month. Software should be the same."

Agreed. I think there will be plenty of choice in the future - that's the nature of competition. Just look at Serif Software - they clearly have Adobe's photoshop, illustrator and indesign in their sights.

PixelStuff wrote on 5/1/2016, 12:13 AM
"Serif"

Still eagerly awaiting the Windows versions of those to try out.
aboammar wrote on 5/1/2016, 10:44 AM
"You can buy your mobile phone outright at a high cost or you can pay it off over say two years at a lower cost per month. Software should be the same."


Could not agree more.

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aboammar wrote on 5/1/2016, 10:46 AM
VidMus .. you indeed provided a nice, creative and ready to use solution .. all SCS has to do is just start applying it. Good job my friend.

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GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

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Laurence wrote on 5/1/2016, 11:52 AM
I simply will not go for the subscription model. No how, no way. In addition to video I also do music and photography. All of these areas want me to sign up for subscriptions. Fortunately there are options. I have the paid studio version of Resolve. For music, I am loving Mixbus. They have both subscription and paid options. I have the last paid version of Photoshop (which I adore) on my computer and will keep using it until I find something better. Maybe that will be Affinity Photo. I will happily pay for software I use, but not through a subscription model.