Junior question but I need to know

JR802 wrote on 6/20/2003, 5:53 PM
I know this may sound like a junior question but untill your faced with actually doing something you've always thought was just a given, you start to second guess yourself.

I have a completed video that I have outputed to DVD architect and produced NTSC DVD's. Now my customer has come back to me asking me for a version that will need to be played in Switzerland, I know they are standarized on the PAL format.

My question is this, can I just go back into Vegas and export out my footage to MPEG in PAL format and burn to a DVD and have it work over there?

TIA, JR802

Comments

john-beale wrote on 6/20/2003, 7:50 PM
Since there are so many popular movies produced in the US, it turns out that many (most?) European DVD players can actually play NTSC-format titles. However, the resulting quality may not be up to the desired level.

As you may know, DVDs formatted for Europe use a 720x576 pixel frame at 25 fps, rather than NTSC at 720x480 pixels and 30 fps. It is straightforward to convert the frame size but the frames-per-second difference must also be accomodated. You can change frame rate in various different ways, simply throwing away some fields which can give a coarse look, or use various more subtle field blending or even motion-interpolation algorithms.

If you reset your project properties to PAL based, I assume Vegas (will? may?) do the approriate spatial and temporal resampling, I haven't tried this. Just wanted to point out that there are special-purpose programs to do this, perhaps with higher quality.
This is one of them: http://www.dvunlimited.com/


rebel44 wrote on 6/20/2003, 9:49 PM
Vegas should resample and adjust for PAL video capture as NTSC.
CrazyRussian wrote on 6/21/2003, 3:06 AM
Vegas will handle it, i'm 99% positive on it. I did something similar, but I had PAL material (over 30 files, many of different formats), did my work in Vegas and output as NTSC. My project was setup as NTSC. Because PAL will play 4% slower when converted to NTSC i had some audio syncing to do. NTSC converted to PAL will play 1% faster, so some audio ajustment must be done.
On the second hand, as somebody else mentioned, EU DVD player will play NTSC format video. The version of "why it will" i read that most of the companies making codec chips for them for cost savings and streamline of products make those chips both: PAL and NTSC, so they can be used for both, I guess it's cheaper that way. The main issue here - will consumer TV display it correctly. DVD most likely will play it, and it will send NTSC signal out to TV. From my research I will say that 95% TVs sold in EU are mutli system, and your DVD will play fine. I'm orignaly from Russian, and even there ALL TVs sold in last 3-5 years are multi system, so, rest of EU must be on multi system as well.
farss wrote on 6/21/2003, 3:23 AM
I've used VV and DVDA to produce both PAL and NTSC DVDs from PAL material, no problems. I've even sent some SVCDs off to Taiwan that were PAL and they played just fine in the NTSC (?) DVD players over there. But I have heard there maybe an issue getting PAL DVDs to play in the US but not the other way around. The other suggestion from SoFo is to make the DVD as 24p, apparently most Hollywood DVDs are produced that way. The DVD player handles the pulldown to whetever it has to output and all is fine in PAL or NTSC land.
mikkie wrote on 6/21/2003, 7:11 AM
There's been some discussion of this, with input from SOFO tech if I remember correctly, so might want to do a forum search on both NTSC to PAL & PAL to NTSC or something similar.

Adding to what was already posted, reducing the framerate might be a good application for the supersampling in VV4c, depending on how much time you have to budget. One thing you don't want to overlook is the difference in frame sizes - not so bad cropping from PAL to NTSC, but the other way around you'll need to enlarge, maintaining aspect, & then crop width - or else letterbox. Don't know if there's anything you can do for the difference in color specs
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/21/2003, 7:15 AM
My question would be once the NTSC has been coverted to PAL and burned to disc, how would one view that disc to check for errors? I presume you have to own a DVD player and television/monitor that played PAL--more expense for the producer!

The few times I've had clients request PAL, I simply sent them to a duplication house that does PAL. Yes, I lost a few bucks, but all of them together wouldn't have covered the expense of buying PAL equipment. Just my humble opinion.

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Chienworks wrote on 6/21/2003, 8:09 AM
CrazyRussian, there doesn't have to be any speed adjustment done when converting between PAL and NTSC. You're probably alluding to slowing PAL's 25fps down to 24fps and vice versa, but this isn't necessary. Vegas can resample the video stream to produce the different frame rate while still keeping the playback speed identical.

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=180020
farss wrote on 6/21/2003, 9:02 AM
I think you'll find WinDVD et al will happily play both and certainly over here in PAL land all our DVD players play both and I'd imagine the ones in the US do the same. The only issue is going to be in the TVs used to view it. Again as has been said before most sets sold in the last few years in PAL land will accept either. This may not be the case in the US though. So if your in NTSC world you can be pretty confident your NTSC DVD is going to play OK for people in PAL land, if you want to be 100% certain VV handles the transcode just fine.

As for the color difference I though that wasn't an issue with DV, the color space is the same, its only an issue with analogue video.

What SoFo said is probably spot on the more I think about it, just make it 24p and the DVD player will handle the rest. For the conversion VV handles it without any intervention apart from changing the "render as".

Now I could of course be quite wrong and but to date nothing has come back to bite me.

Hearing all these technical considerations is making me nervous but everytime I've had a reply to these sort of issues (using VV to transcode) from the wise men who wrote the code I'm assured it really is as simple as I think it is. And I have done some limited test of my own, bought in PAL from DSR11, rendered as NTSC, recorded to NTSC on DSR11 switched to NTSC and played back to precision monitor. It immediately had a dummy spit UNTIL we switched it to NTSC and then we saw the same as what we started with as NTSC. I was told SoFo tested NTSC to SECAM and it also looked as good as it can get.

Maybe the biggest issue here is that SoFo never promoted the fact that VV can transcode PAL to NTSC or vise versa. Perhaps they could release it under a different name but with just one video and audio track for doing just that at five times the price :)
filmy wrote on 6/21/2003, 10:26 AM
>>>My question would be once the NTSC has been coverted to PAL and burned to disc, how would one view that disc to check for errors?<<<

For about 50 bucks in the US you get a set top DVD player like the APEX AD-1500. Does PAL>NTSC conversion excellent. If you have a PAL TV it also has an NTSC/PAL switch for the actual output signal. This deck plays almost anything you toss at it - I have to say it was the best 50 bucks I have ever spent and this unit does far more that I would have expected for the price.