Kodak Zi8: pretty cool pocket cam.

Laurence wrote on 10/28/2009, 5:46 PM
I just got one of http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/04/kodak-zi8-impressions-surprising-functionality-but-its-still/these[/link] today and really like it. For me, the last thing I want to do when I'm not working is carry a camcorder around. A home camcorder has to fit in my pocket. Not a small bag with a strap around my neck. My pocket. Period.

Anyway, a little bit of rolling shutter but not bad. A little noise in low light but not too dark. Electronic image stabilization that works pretty well. Facial recognition on the auto focus. 1080p at 30fps. 720p at 60fps. An SD card that can go up to 32GB. Optical 2x zoom (not digital). It actually has a stereo mic input with a meter and level control! I really like it.

Don't forget to double click the videos to see them in HD (downrezzed to 720p on the first one) on the Youtube site.

Comments

Laurence wrote on 10/28/2009, 9:48 PM
I just shot and uploaded this tonight. Shot 1280x720x60p for slow motion effects.



These are kids at the dojo where i teach. The Zi8 was on a monopod.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/28/2009, 9:56 PM
Laurence,
I agree the quality from zi8 clips I have seen beats Flip, Vado, and others I have seen.

1) Have you found it necessary to change the .mov extension to .mp4 to open the files in Vegas, or are you converting using the bundled software?
2) If you are renaming files, have you noticed sync problems on the Vegas timeline (2 sec offset)? If so, does this occur at 720 or 1080 resolutions, or only at the quasi-SD 480 res?
Laurence wrote on 10/28/2009, 10:06 PM
The footage opens just fine on a Vegas 9c timeline with either the 32 or 64 bit versions of Vegas. Audio is a stereo pair with no sync problems (mono sound in both channels unless you use an external stereo mic). No renaming of the extension is necessary like you had to do with the Kodak Zi6. Preview in Vegas is jerky like AVCHD cameras. I just used Ultimate-S to batch convert the Zi8 clips into 1280x720x60p .mxf format which Vegas goes through like butter both on preview and render. I tried Cineform NeoHDV with their convertor utility but it didn't work with the clips so XDCAM was my next best choice. I turned off facial recognition because I didn't want it hunting for faces while trying to focus. Aside from that everything was auto (which is the only way this camera can shoot).
musicvid10 wrote on 10/28/2009, 10:24 PM
Sweet!
Who wants to send me one for Christmas?
Laurence wrote on 10/28/2009, 11:23 PM
A few more things on this camera:

The SD mode is 848x480x29.97 square pixels. Not bad for SD!

The 720p, SD and photo modes are quite wide, whereas the 1080p mode is a tighter shot and similiar to other cameras of this type.

There is quite a bit of noise reduction and sharpening going on. Try to tweak the picture and you'll really see this.

The electronic stabilization isn't bad. Neither is the facial recognition auto focus.

The zoom is not very smooth. It is optical however (only 2x) so it is useable, just not during a shot.

It is a great home quality camcorder. I wouldn't use it beyond that but for family stuff it is quite nice. Great for taking to a park to capture shots of the kids. The 60p is really cool for kids sports stuff.

ChipGallo wrote on 10/29/2009, 7:24 AM
According to a user on another site, there is a firmware update that makes the zoom smoother.
kkolbo wrote on 10/29/2009, 7:50 AM
I have two of the Zi8's and three Zi6's. I like the Zi8 a lot. The mic input gives you usable audio with a $20 mic.

Actually the face recognition is for exposure not focus. The focus is fixed, not auto.

Hand held it is impossible to get good solid shots for an old fart like me, but put it on a trash can and you are good. The lens doesn't focus until about three feet beyond my arms, so I need a tripod to do interviews.

I used it to do a news package Sunday and was very surprised at the results. They were very usable except for the shakey handed cameraman.

Vegas 9.0c now opens the Zi6 and Zi8 files along with similar units' output. Yea!, No more QT transcodes. BTW, my computer edits the files at best full (razzberry)

KK
musicvid10 wrote on 10/29/2009, 9:05 AM
Is there some image stabilization in the zi8, or is that too much to hope for?
kkolbo wrote on 10/29/2009, 9:31 AM
The image stabilization is pretty good on this unit for electronic stabilization. I just have trouble holding still with a cell phone sized camera.

KK
Laurence wrote on 10/29/2009, 12:26 PM
A cheap monopod does wonders for any of the small cell phone sized camcorders. Even if you don't extend it to the ground it helps immensely.
Coursedesign wrote on 10/29/2009, 12:42 PM
That Zi8 really can produce some pretty stunning footage for its size.

Bang for the buck doesn't even begin to describe it, just check out this short.
Laurence wrote on 10/29/2009, 12:49 PM
Nothing like sunlight to bring out the best in the small cams. :-)

I did the http://www.kodak.com/global/mul/service/downloads/DownloadLookup.jhtml?pq-path=15372/15504&product=EKN036561firmware update[/link] and it did fix the jumpy zoom.

For Zi6 owners, there is a firmware update for that camera http://www.kodak.com/global/mul/service/downloads/DownloadLookup.jhtml?pq-path=13135/13243/14559&product=EKN035874here[/link].

Another extremely cool thing I found is that there is a Sony compatible DC bias on the stereo mic in. This means that this camcorder will work with the really good mics from microphonemadness.com. Mics like http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmlaplapstyl.htmthis one[/link] for instance.
Laurence wrote on 10/30/2009, 12:19 PM
Both New Blue AVCHD UpShift and Cineform Neo HDV seem to be quite useless with clips from this camera. You can convert to Cineform in Vegas, but not with the Cineform utility (which only seems to work with m2t clips which work fine on the Vegas timeline as they are).

Vegas can handle the .mov clips directly from the Zi8, but on my Intel dual core laptop, I get something like five or six frames per second preview at preview resolution. Not good enough. The solution is to convert to .mxf format with some sort of a batch file converter like Proxy Stream, Gearshift or Ultimate S. Vegas flies through these files even at 60fps, smart-renders them (which is fine for family footage). They play back beautifully then from the free Sony XDCam viewer. Pretty cool.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/31/2009, 4:50 PM
Played with one at Target today (Walmart doesn't have them).
Buttons are horribly small, but the screen is nice.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/31/2009, 7:43 PM
> Both New Blue AVCHD UpShift and Cineform Neo HDV seem to be quite useless with clips from this camera.

These are AVCHD tools and the Zi8 is not an AVCHD camera so this shouldn't be a surprise. As long as the clips work in Vegas you can batch render them to whatever you need (or just work with them in Vegas). Seems like a really nice pocket camera.

~jr
kkolbo wrote on 10/31/2009, 10:54 PM

Production Assistant works great for batch transcoding the file to mxf or HDV or anything else you want to use. The author of that had his act together.

I tried working with the files in Adobe because of its stabilization and because it says that it handles these files. Thank God for Vegas :-) When Adobe can't keep up with the decode even the stop button won't work. At least when Vegas chokes on a format and the frame rate drops to 1fps, you still have control of the app. With Production Assistant, I can transcode to a more editable format with ease.

Laurence wrote on 10/31/2009, 11:46 PM
With the 1080p setting I see lots of rolling shutter. With the 720p setting I don't. If there's low light or a lot of back light, you can see some severe vertical artifacts. Under decent light it looks great. In low light the 60p setting drops down to 30p automatically. I suppose this makes sense. The media plays back really nicely in the Arcsoft player. 60p looks as smooth as 60i on a TV. If the light is low, once you zoom in about half way the brightness drops way back very suddenly. The 858x480 mode looks very nice. The anti-shake algorithm looks very nice in the 720p and SD widescreen modes, but doesn't do much at all in the 1080 mode. In the 1080 mode, the lens is nowhere near as wide and the zoom goes in about half as far.

Handheld with the antishake on at 720x60p this camera can look very good if the light is decent and not behind the action.

The mic input sounds really good with dc bias microphones and manual level with VU metering. That is one of the highlights of this camera.

The camera fits really nicely in this rugged work cell phone case I got from Lowes building supply. It's like having a second smart phone on my belt.

1280x720x60p .mxf format seems to be the way to go with this camera. Previews and renders are really quick, especially when it smart-renders.