Lagging Audio

jovsiew wrote on 2/14/2000, 1:35 PM

Hello, I've got a fast PC (P2 450/10gb Ultra ata HD/192mb
RAM) and an EMagic Audiowerks2 card. I'm have a problem
that most of you have probably dealt with. I'm new to
digital recording so be gentle. I'm using an outboard
mixer to for input as well as monitoring output.

When I use any package including any SF product, there is
a delay if I am playing back and recording simultaniously.

I know this is caused by the conversion of my new source to
digital and it spitting it back out.

Manuals say to monitor my input BEFORE the sound card, but
how can I get the packages to record, send out only
existing tracks (sans my new input) with my existing setup?

Please help,

Jody (slightly lagging behind) Ovsiew

Comments

MamboKing wrote on 2/15/2000, 12:58 PM

Hey Jody.

I've heard on several different forums (ProRec and Cakewalk
newsgroups, to be precise) that the Audiowerk card isn't very stable
with any app besides Logic. Apparently the Windows Wave Driver for
this card (which is what Vegas uses) isn't very robust, causing delay
and/or dropouts in apps like Vegas, Cool Edit Pro, or Cakewalk. It
works just fine in Emagic's own software as they write their own
proprietary driver for use with their own app.

If you can, send it back and get a proven performer like one of the
Event cards or a MIDIMAN Delta series card.

Jody Ovsiew wrote:
>>Hello, I've got a fast PC (P2 450/10gb Ultra ata HD/192mb
>>RAM) and an EMagic Audiowerks2 card. I'm have a problem
>>that most of you have probably dealt with. I'm new to
>>digital recording so be gentle. I'm using an outboard
>>mixer to for input as well as monitoring output.
>>
>>When I use any package including any SF product, there is
>>a delay if I am playing back and recording simultaniously.
>>
>>I know this is caused by the conversion of my new source to
>>digital and it spitting it back out.
>>
>>Manuals say to monitor my input BEFORE the sound card, but
>>how can I get the packages to record, send out only
>>existing tracks (sans my new input) with my existing setup?
>>
>>Please help,
>>
>>Jody (slightly lagging behind) Ovsiew
>>
>>

PipelineAudio wrote on 3/1/2000, 4:38 AM

Jody Ovsiew wrote:
>>Hello, I've got a fast PC (P2 450/10gb Ultra ata HD/192mb
>>RAM) and an EMagic Audiowerks2 card. I'm have a problem
>>that most of you have probably dealt with. I'm new to
>>digital recording so be gentle. I'm using an outboard
>>mixer to for input as well as monitoring output.
>>
>>When I use any package including any SF product, there is
>>a delay if I am playing back and recording simultaniously.

This isnt a problem with digital recording per se, its a problem
with computer audio. This is the ugly monster called "latency". Get
used to that word you're going to be seeing it more and more.

>>I know this is caused by the conversion of my new source to
>>digital and it spitting it back out.

Again, be careful that you're not "digital bashing". In your
case you are trying to use your computer to replace a tape recorder,
which it most certainly is not. The Sony DASH PCM3348 is a digital
tape recorder with no latency (actually 2 samples worth so I guess
1/24,000th of a second latency sorry). The Tascam DA series MDM's
also have no latency. Even the Toys-R-Us quality Alesis ADAT is
immune from this problem.

>>Manuals say to monitor my input BEFORE the sound card, but
>>how can I get the packages to record, send out only
>>existing tracks (sans my new input) with my existing setup?
>>
>>Please help,
>>
>>Jody (slightly lagging behind) Ovsiew
>>

Ready? Here we go! Im not sure if you've worked much with tape
before, but in my case I wanted my computer to emulate as closely as
possible the "auto input" function of any worthwhile tape machine.
Forget it. Even if your card could play your ACTIVE track,that is the
one you are recording, while you are recording(which few if any can
do even though most can play back previously recorded tracks while
recording)you would'nt like hearing it and timing would be
impossible...imagine playing your guitar through 15 miliseconds of
delay with 100 % wet signal and trying to keep time with a metronome.

Hopefully you dont need to do too much bussing on your console
while you are sending to tape (disk). For the most part you can
probably assign your input faders to the LR buss while using a Direct
out or perhaps an insert send from that channel to your sound card.
This way you can follow the perfectly sensible advice of monitoring
the send(which will be in time) instead of the return.

When overdubbing you should be able to listen to a stereo mix
from your soundcard to get your timing information. Vegas makes it
easy to zoom in and compensate for the offset of your overdub due to
latency...

Good luck! And dont let anyone bag on your card...

jovsiew wrote on 3/1/2000, 9:47 AM

Thanks Aaron, finally someone who understands. I'm sure I can rig
something up to work. It seems many people hype digital recording to
be the best thing since sliced bread. It is very powerful for sure,
but to lay down tracks quickly is not always so simple.

I guess I'm still stuck on the tape nomenclature.

Jody

Aaron Carey wrote:
>>
>>
>>Jody Ovsiew wrote:
>>>>Hello, I've got a fast PC (P2 450/10gb Ultra ata HD/192mb
>>>>RAM) and an EMagic Audiowerks2 card. I'm have a problem
>>>>that most of you have probably dealt with. I'm new to
>>>>digital recording so be gentle. I'm using an outboard
>>>>mixer to for input as well as monitoring output.
>>>>
>>>>When I use any package including any SF product, there is
>>>>a delay if I am playing back and recording simultaniously.
>>
>> This isnt a problem with digital recording per se, its a
problem
>>with computer audio. This is the ugly monster called "latency". Get
>>used to that word you're going to be seeing it more and more.
>>
>>>>I know this is caused by the conversion of my new source to
>>>>digital and it spitting it back out.
>>
>> Again, be careful that you're not "digital bashing". In your
>>case you are trying to use your computer to replace a tape
recorder,
>>which it most certainly is not. The Sony DASH PCM3348 is a digital
>>tape recorder with no latency (actually 2 samples worth so I guess
>>1/24,000th of a second latency sorry). The Tascam DA series MDM's
>>also have no latency. Even the Toys-R-Us quality Alesis ADAT is
>>immune from this problem.
>>
>>>>Manuals say to monitor my input BEFORE the sound card, but
>>>>how can I get the packages to record, send out only
>>>>existing tracks (sans my new input) with my existing setup?
>>>>
>>>>Please help,
>>>>
>>>>Jody (slightly lagging behind) Ovsiew
>>>>
>>
>> Ready? Here we go! Im not sure if you've worked much with tape
>>before, but in my case I wanted my computer to emulate as closely
as
>>possible the "auto input" function of any worthwhile tape machine.
>>Forget it. Even if your card could play your ACTIVE track,that is
the
>>one you are recording, while you are recording(which few if any can
>>do even though most can play back previously recorded tracks while
>>recording)you would'nt like hearing it and timing would be
>>impossible...imagine playing your guitar through 15 miliseconds of
>>delay with 100 % wet signal and trying to keep time with a
metronome.
>>
>> Hopefully you dont need to do too much bussing on your console
>>while you are sending to tape (disk). For the most part you can
>>probably assign your input faders to the LR buss while using a
Direct
>>out or perhaps an insert send from that channel to your sound card.
>>This way you can follow the perfectly sensible advice of monitoring
>>the send(which will be in time) instead of the return.
>>
>> When overdubbing you should be able to listen to a stereo mix
>>from your soundcard to get your timing information. Vegas makes it
>>easy to zoom in and compensate for the offset of your overdub due
to
>>latency...
>>
>> Good luck! And dont let anyone bag on your card...