Laggy... everything.

Rob-McMillan wrote on 8/13/2022, 1:29 AM

I have a Dell XPS 15 with an i9-12900hk and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Ti. I am running Vegas Pro 19 on Windows 11.

I've only had this PC for a month or two, and have never been able to get the video preview to behave appropriately. Yes, I'm editing with 10-bit HVEC 4K files, so I expect a certain amount of lag. But I'm getting like 0.1 frames per second. Crazy slow. On my old Dell XPS 15, I could get much better performance.

I don't think it's a hardware problem... all of the benchmarks for both the CPU and GPU are fine.

I've compared as many settings as possible between my new laptop and my old laptop, all while editing the exact same video. I still can't figure it out because the settings are all--as far as i can tell--exactly the same.

I even downloaded a trial version of Vegas 20, and it is awful too. So I'm pretty sure there's some software/setting/etc in the background that's making problems. I'm hoping someone has some advice.

A couple of other things:

--For a while, I did find a workaround. About a month ago, I changed the project settings to 720p instead of 4k, and then turned off GPU rendering for the preview window... and the preview would play great. But now even THAT doesn't work anymore. So something weird is going on with my system for it to work a week ago... and then all of a sudden NOT work.

--Second, I don't think it's anything with my graphics card, because again--I've disabled the GPU completely. Vegas isn't even using it.

--Third, it's not just the preview window. Once Vegas starts up, and the project starts loading, EVERYTHING is slow. I get windows not responding notes, the thumbnails on the timeline take forever to load, etc.

For what it's worth,

I also did have a thought about whether anyone's had issues with Windows 11. That's the only other apparent difference between my two systems.

I know it's a big ask... but any thoughts?!? I'm editing with proxies now as a backup, but I shouldn't have to with a system of this caliber.

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Comments

Former user wrote on 8/18/2022, 11:44 PM

For those curious I finally got a chance to test this. Using my Sony A7S3 I recorded some footage in HEVC 200mbps 4:2:2 10bit 60fps which is the best mode the camera offers. I didn't add any effects, just put the raw footage on the timeline. Vegas 20 timeline playback is around 4fps (unusable) whereas Resolve plays it back easily at full 60fps on my little Dell XPS 15 9510 laptop.

I tried disabling legacy HEVC playback in Vegas 20 as well but it didn't help.

@RealityStudio For some HEVC formats, Legacy will allow Vegas to use all your CPU for decode, but when using SO4 hevc decoder it can only use a single core of your CPU. The problem for you is that Vegas can't use Legacy HEVC for your camera format, so it forces SO4 decoder, and because your hardware does not support GPU decode of 422 color you're left with Vegas attempting to decode a 10bit 4K HEVC with 1 core of your CPU which is very silly.

edit: Actually you do have 422 decode on your igpu, so basically it's still a cpu problem, you're aided by GPU decode, but the GPU decoder doesn't have access to enough CPU, as it's single threaded

RealityStudio wrote on 8/19/2022, 12:21 AM

Yeah this particular Intel gpu does indeed support hardware decode of HEVC 4:2:2. On Resolve during timeline playback the cpu is only at 12% use so it's mostly snoozing and the Intel gpu is at around 40% use, mostly of the video decoder. Anyways it is what it is, I'll just stick to Resolve for HEVC work, no biggie.

Former user wrote on 8/19/2022, 1:24 AM

@RealityStudio Your camera file requires a higher processor load on the CPU then other formats, like for example DJI drones that typically do not use B frames, even as 422 10bit if such a beast existed might play ok for you, but your file is 99% B frames, and it looks like it's using 2 types of B frames. A nightmare for Vegas GPU decoder but light work for Resolve and Premiere

Rob-McMillan wrote on 8/19/2022, 1:29 AM

I also shoot with the A7S3. Although I shoot in 4.2.0, it is still HVEC 10-bit 150mbps. And I have the same problems that you have with very slow preview playback in w Vegas.

My workaround is to set the project properties to 1080, as opposed to 4K. This allows me to get video preview playback at close to 29.97, and then occasionally dropping down but quickly rising up again. When I render the project, I simply select my 4k render setting and I'm all good.

RogerS wrote on 8/19/2022, 2:27 AM

If the camera has an acceptable AVC option I'd go with that for Vegas.

relaxvideo wrote on 8/19/2022, 2:32 AM

Todd-b: what's that utility? Any plan to support multicore hevc decoding with SO4?
In fact, i have problem with 4k 8bit 4:2:0 H264 files too from ZV-E10 cam. I can only edit 3-4 minutes in V19 b643 (simple cuts, deletes, no fx at all). Vegas just don't respond, i have to force close and restart. IF i check legacy avc decoding, all is fine. So it's definetly not a problem with camera files or my daughter's PC (which is Ryzen 5-1600, 1050Ti card with latest studio driver, 16GB ram, win10, ssd)

It's definetly a bug in So4 (gpu) decoder, which should be fixed!!
All other apps which use gpu decoding are fine, no crashing..

Rob-McMillan wrote on 8/19/2022, 10:55 AM

If the camera has an acceptable AVC option I'd go with that for Vegas.

Makes sense. But too late... all of my files are already HEVC. But again, through my workaround of setting project settings at 1080p, 30fps I get pretty decent playback (acceptable for editing anyway) through the preview window.

Former user wrote on 8/19/2022, 6:40 PM

Todd-b: what's that utility? Any plan to support multicore hevc decoding with SO4?

That's a somewhat archaic enterprise media player called Telestream Switch. I inherited an older version and upgraded it to latest. It's not at all affordable to buy as an individual or small business. The product John Dennis recommends that shows the same GOP and data rate is VideoReDo, there's a few versions not sure if they all have that ability. Trials are available

Any plan to support multicore hevc decoding with SO4?

It's definetly a bug in So4 (gpu) decoder, which should be fixed!!
All other apps which use gpu decoding are fine, no crashing..

It's always been my thinking that they have to gut the render engine to introduce the ability to play 'raw' codecs such as BRAW and ProresRaw with GPU decode. I hope that to be true as this will fix playback problems and stability

fr0sty wrote on 8/19/2022, 7:07 PM

GPU decode doesn't work for either prores raw or BM raw on any app... GPUs do not support hardware decoding of those formats.

Former user wrote on 8/19/2022, 7:23 PM

GPU decode doesn't work for either prores raw or BM raw on any app... GPUs do not support hardware decoding of those formats.

@fr0sty I"M talking about the GPU as a processor assisting in the decode of BRAW and Prores Raw, not the asic 'GPU DECODER' . As you know premiere used to only be able to decode BRAW with cpu via a 3rd party plugin, the experience not great, taxing the cpu and slow, when Adobe introduced BRAW with GPU decoding, BRAW then became a pleasure to use. It's the same with ProRes RAW, as I mentioned CPU alone using Edius for a 4K Prores Raw file resulted in cpu use between 65% and 100%, but I turned on GPU support for ProRes Raw and CPU use is 35%. GPU makes a huge difference with these pseudo raw formats

fr0sty wrote on 8/19/2022, 7:33 PM

As far as I can tell it's working in Vegas. The GPU is being utilized while it's playing back, and playback is buttery smooth.

fr0sty wrote on 8/19/2022, 7:34 PM

Also, GPU decode assumes that the decoding is being done entirely with the GPUs video decoder hardware, I suppose the better term to use would be GPU acceleration of decoding.

Former user wrote on 8/19/2022, 8:40 PM

@fr0sty Well that's interesting, it's using hardly any CPU or GPU. When possible are you able to test this file, https://www.dropbox.com/s/3s69qmkae92l9wb/Filmplusgear-ProRes-RAW-testfiles-16.MOV?dl=0

I don't have any audio at the moment, it's possible you were testing braw but if you are able to play prores raw on a beta Vegas try that file. On media player it uses 40% GPU 45% CPU, on Premiere 25% GPU and 40% - 60% CPU. As a comparison HEVC of same resolution and frame rate uses around 15% CPU and GPU on media player and Premiere

RogerS wrote on 8/19/2022, 9:49 PM

For ProRes raw if you want to test it can't you go back to early builds of 19 where it was (erroneously) enabled? Nobody can report on results with non-public beta versions even if it were supported.

I don't get any significant GPU usage with Braw.

fr0sty wrote on 8/19/2022, 10:22 PM

Yeah, I can't report anything to do with anything but official releases. Luckily, as RogerS said, you can test it yourself by installing an old build of 19.

I didn't get significant GPU usage with BRaw, but I also had insignificant CPU usage on a several year old CPU, so the GPU had to be helping something... as playback was rock solid.

Former user wrote on 8/19/2022, 10:25 PM

@RogerS Yes appeared to be CPU only for ProRes Raw when it was available, Early development and it will have GPU support on release, it has to. Just a matter of when.

I didn't get significant GPU usage with BRaw, but I also had insignificant CPU usage on a several year old CPU, so the GPU had to be helping something... as playback was rock solid.

@fr0sty what ever was going on, playback was very impressive, and did not have the CPU use I recall from 3rd party Premiere plugin

RogerS wrote on 8/19/2022, 11:02 PM

I saved that file you linked to and look forward to testing it whenever Vegas is ready.