Rednroll wrote on 3/30/2005, 7:10 PM
Yeah, if you haven't noticed these actions seem to follow some of my posts. One of these days I'm gonna have to change my username from Rednroll to "LocknDelete". But hey look on the bright side the VST post just jumped back up one more notch. :-)
Weevil wrote on 3/30/2005, 7:45 PM
...Hmmm, well this is rapidly spiralling out of control.

My advice would be for everyone (on both sides) to chill out a bit.

...But since when has anyone around here listened to my advice...
PipelineAudio wrote on 3/30/2005, 9:38 PM
oh we ALWAYS listen

it may go in one ear and out the other, but we certainly listen :)

Noone will ever catch up to Victor when it comes to deleted posts, but hey we can try right?
Weevil wrote on 3/30/2005, 10:08 PM
Joe D is the one I’ll always remember. He was bonkers.

He’d kick and scream and wave his arms around like a wild man.

Kept on repeating his insane theory about how Sony had sold out their audio users...Man how crazy was he!
Rednroll wrote on 3/31/2005, 12:02 AM
"Kept on repeating his insane theory about how Sony had sold out their audio users...Man how crazy was he!"

Ok, that one just made me bust my gut........good one Weevil.
Ben  wrote on 3/31/2005, 2:52 AM
Just logged in since I posted... why the hell was that thread deleted?!

>> I am locking this thread, as it is producing no useful content to this forum.
Start another one if you want. <<

We did start another one, and you deleted it. Clearly 'useful' is a very subjective term...

These latest events can easily be described as censorship and supression. Think we got waaaay to close to the truth guys. They're getting paranoid, but this is really unbelievable. As I said, we've all seen much 'worse' things go on in these forums, and threads haven't been locked or deleted. This really is, more than ever, showing a total lack of respect for your audio users.

Rednroll wrote on 3/31/2005, 5:06 AM
Don't even begin to ask me how many threads I've read and have finally jumped into them over at the VV forum where they're arguing about video monitors or video cameras. Ones going on right now about monitors. If you want to witness something entertaining, just go on over to the VV forum and post the question, " Do I really need a professional video monitor to get professional results?" Go ahead, I dare you. I've been in these forums for quite awhile, and I've got to say, the Vegas Video forum is the worst of any out there. Me and Pipeline have had our battles over the years in these forums, but eventually we move on and the dust settles. Over there the dust is constantly being stirred,,,,,and that's even coming from me who has been known to stir some dust up on occassion.

But anyways we shouldn't be bringing that up because it's not an audio vs video feature forum argument, it's a multimedia forum argument and we're all one big happy multimedia family.
pwppch wrote on 3/31/2005, 8:03 AM
You are right. I shouldn't have deleted that thread.

Accept my appology for deleting the previous thread. Never wanted to play forum moderator.

I have always been a supporter of the Vegas Audio users. I blame myself for being staight with you guys and presenting the facts as they stand. I understand now that many would rather take some user's spin on what we do and why we do it.

(I really don't understand the snide comments and what benifit you believe they will have. Never did get that aspect of these forums.)

In the end, you just want features. I accept that. I can't promise when or if any of the features you desire will happen. Sorry.

I promise to stay out of it from now on. You guys are on your own as far as I am concerned.

Rednroll wrote on 3/31/2005, 10:23 AM
You know Peter, as I said in that infamous VST thread.

"I truly appreciate that on his part and participating in these open discussions.. SonyEPM will always try to keep you guessing and playing the peace maker middle man, where usually with a discussion with SonyPCH you can start to read between the lines. "

So yes, we do appreciate you participating in these discussions and being honest with us. If you're really supportive of the audio users, then make us feel that way. In communicating with you and expressing our collective needs in these discussions, you are the only window we have of hope that our needs will be heard. We want to walk away knowing you are in there kicking and screaming as hard as we are at you, saying "This is what our audio users want!!!!........We need to do something to address this!!!!....look how passionate they are, and I think they make some very valid points!!!!" We want to feel you're in there kicking some ass, just like we're out here kicking your ass in these forums. We understand that you are not in charge of what does and doesn't go into Vegas or Acid. But I bet the people that are, will often come to you and ask you being one of the programmers, "Can we do this? and if we do how much work is it? and what will we break in trying to properly implement this?" So you're the closest thing we got, and we all truly appreciate you for having these discussions. If you're supporting the audio users, then let us know, "Hey I'm in here letting everyone know what you promises as always....but I'm doing all I can for you guys." That at least gives us hope and the feeling that we are at least being listened too. Right now, your responses leave no hope, and we feel no one is listening.

"I promise to stay out of it from now on. You guys are on your own as far as I am concerned."

We are sorry for stepping on your toes, but again even in this statement, you leave us feeling left hopeless, with no one left to listen. That's not our intentions, we want to work with you, not against you. Try working with us a little harder.
adowrx wrote on 3/31/2005, 11:10 AM
Very well put, Rednroll.

Ditto for the appreciation to SonyEPM and SonyPCH. I value their opinions and help on this forum and would like to think that they'd take our audio perspective seriously and work to implement the fine and reasonable suggestions brought forward in the VST thread.

PipelineAudio wrote on 3/31/2005, 11:14 AM
The saddest part is, I bet PCH works harder for us audio guys to get thte things we want than anyone, and yet he has to be the guy to bring us all the bad news as well.

I say Sony needs to give us a guy we can tar and feather, PCH can come in and ask questions, and bring us good news, and the new guy can bring us the bad news
Rednroll wrote on 3/31/2005, 12:19 PM
Yeah!!! A little good/cop bad/cop action!!!! Believe it or not, I personally hate taking my frustrations out on Peter in these discussions because, I know he's on our side. On the most part we're always on the same page and if we're not he's open to listening. Then there's other times during these discussions, where I feel someone has brain washed him. They put him in a dark room, give him heavy sedatives and keep repeating in his ear, <drone type voice>"Repeat after me Peter, Vegas is not a DAW it is an NLE with DAW like features." "Vegas has always been been an NLE and still meets it's original design intentions"....."Vegas is what it is..... it never stands still." "Acid is also not a DAW, it's a loop sequencer." "Acid's midi features are what they are, we never stand still" <Snap of the fingers> "Hey Peter, have you been reading the forums lately? You might want to go check that out, to see what our audio users want."

"the new guy can bring us the bad news "

HA!!! I can picture how that job interview would go. Interviewer: "Hey I really like that shirt you wore to the interview, what's that on your Stomach?".....<Thud!!!!....smooth swift unexpected jab to the mid drift> "Oh, I'm sorry about that, my artheritas must have been acting up, let me get you a glass of water. Here you go. <Sip.....Smash!!!! glass breaks over their head> "Oh my gosh what happened, you're bleeding like crazy?.....let me get you a band aid for that" <comes back with a roll of duct tape> < duct tape around his entire head> "Well, that ought to stop the bleading." "So how are you feeling today?" Applicant: "I feel great!!!" Interviewer: "Great!!! You're hired!!!! You definately have all the qualifications we're looking for".
Weevil wrote on 3/31/2005, 3:28 PM
Big guy, big guy, big guy...Come on everybody, group hug...

For what it’s worth, I’ve seen you make plenty of what I have thought to be perfectly valid points in these threads. Only to see them later be twisted totally out of context. After all your efforts over the years to do the right thing by us, I totally understand how that could get you very down.

Snide comments are purely a result of frustration and I’m sure plenty of it is misguided. But like I always say, it’s all about perspective, go hang out in Mixerman’s forum if ya wanna experience some real rough and tumble. It’s pussycat city in here in comparison.

Sure, I may have called you Darth Haller behind your back from time to time but come on admit it; you have called me much, much worse.
Rednroll wrote on 3/31/2005, 3:51 PM
Come on Peter, we know The Force is strong, but give into the dark side......Use the Force jedi....use the Force.
James Young wrote on 3/31/2005, 4:07 PM
Peter, you are awesome for telling it straight, don't let any of this stuff get you down, especially on a personal level - which, I'm not saying it does, but we can never be too sure. We all appreciate your hard work.
tmrpro wrote on 3/31/2005, 6:19 PM
Man .... did it just get warm and fuzzy in here ... somewhat gelatinous in nature...

SHTUNOT wrote on 3/31/2005, 7:36 PM
Peter promised us that sony products will improve...when??? Hey as part of the acid beta I saw peter working very hard to add a "skunkworks" project to acid. [wink to those of you who remember] He was willing to yank it for "quality" purposes instead of trying to make everyone happy like cakewalk. Trust me he works hard to keep his "employee of the month" title going.

I realy think that this is happening in the vegas beta right now...And like was said before "some will be happy while others will continue to rant".[Btw...I'm not in the V6 beta ;( ] By now why can't you guys just accept this? I seriously doubt that the audio upgrade will be as bad as VV3? [Peter I better not be looking stupid for saying that]

If more could be done I think it would have been already. To come into a forum and "school" Peter on this is dumb. Like the guy wants to go out and update his resume and apply to work at cakewalk or something.

Telling you what you want to hear has never been and probably never will be his style. I know this from being here so long. Some of you should really know better.

Whatever the upgrade will look like for the audio side I still have sonar 3.11 to fall back on. I really hate to say that but thats just reality.

Not to say one shouldn't complain...It's just that when you have a thread of "yadda yadda yadda" and 126 posts later its one big retarded circle of "yadda yadda yadda" going south...I won't miss that thread at all. I think peter was right to delete it. If you want to get a message accross start a forum poll...Like the one that was started for "rewire in acid". Look what happened.

PipelineAudio wrote on 3/31/2005, 7:48 PM
maybe its poll time
Weevil wrote on 3/31/2005, 10:28 PM
Err...I kinda figured these threads were de facto polls...

What format for this do you want SHTUNOT?
Rednroll wrote on 4/1/2005, 3:01 AM
Well, Ed you have your opinion, all in all I think although the thread wasn't the kindest thread, it was effective and needed to be said. Here's a direct example.

Now, look at the response in the VST thread regarding the UAD-1 CPU munching problem, and contrast that with the communication and interest that's going on in the above thread that directly followed the VST discussion thread. It seems like to me, the problem might be looked at once again to get to the bottom of what's going on, once and for all. I'm not sure about our Vegas/Acid pipe dream, but at least we already have one example where the viewpoint was at least open for reconsideration.
SHTUNOT wrote on 4/1/2005, 9:38 AM
Red the cpu munching thread was about a already existing feature set in a sony app. Not a feature we're trying to get them to "bring to the top" of the "to do" list [ala midi/etc].

How can we get them to "do it right" for any next release? With a limited r&d budget I guess we all have to do what sony does and debate on these forums which 5 is MOST important to us. Again some will win/lose but if we ALL came to agreement and stuck with just those 5 like with the "rewire" thread and kept it focused it might help more than just "Peter why don't you say it like this" threads.

It's toooooo late now but after the smoke clears from V6 lets try it again.

TBH we've all been yelling for so many features over the past 2 versions that I'm confident that sony knows what we want and plans on keeping our business.

James Young wrote on 4/1/2005, 10:34 AM
I think they just figure 'the pros outwieght the cons'
PipelineAudio wrote on 4/1/2005, 12:16 PM
the absolute basics of multitrack recording would still be nice
SHTUNOT wrote on 4/1/2005, 4:52 PM