Comments

craftech wrote on 11/19/2003, 7:26 AM
Take a section of the timeline which you want to color correct and split it. Then copy that section, open a new instance of Vegas, and paste it six or seven times into the new project. Or you could put the section in the media pool and do the same.
Color correct each section with experimental settings to taste, make notes on it, and render the whole thing to Mpeg 2.
Then author it in DVDA and burn it to a rewriteable DVD and look at it on several TVs if that's possible. Choose the best one.
Sounds like a lot of work, but it doesn't really take that long. A lot shorter than long Mpeg 2 renders, DVDA authoring and burning, only to find out you don't like the color or that there are artifacts.

John
farss wrote on 11/19/2003, 7:53 AM
If keeping your levels legal is an issue that you need to address then no, the encoder will not take care of it.

The DVD player may do some limiting, I've noticed that some of my earlier DVDs that were not legal wouldn't spin my crappy monitor out yet playing back from VHS or DV would. Yet I can still put super black onto a DVD and the player will play it out at that level which. I don't have a analogue waveform monitor to really check what's coming out of the player so it's hard to know for sure just what the player is doing with the levels.

A lot of devics do include some clamping as well to really confuse the issue, my ADS A/V link seems to always give legal output which is a bit of a two edged sword, great for what I'm using it for and probably a good idea for its target market but if I wanted to deliberately generate illegal levels it's going to stop me.
StormMarc wrote on 11/19/2003, 2:52 PM
Has anyone ever tested a pro DVD's output (with a waveform) to see if there is 7.5 set-up on it? I wondering if the DVD players add there own set-up at the analog output or if it's actually recorded into the movie. I usually leave my blacks at 0 when going to DVD otherwise they seem washed out.

Marc
craftech wrote on 11/19/2003, 7:58 PM
I have found the same thing. I have to go below so called "legal" levels to get rich blacks.

John
DavidNJ wrote on 1/20/2004, 3:07 PM
So, do you need to use the broadcast filer for DVDs? For VHS? The filters seem to make the whites grey and lessen the blacks.

Thanks,

David
SonyEPM wrote on 1/20/2004, 5:42 PM
"So, do you need to use the broadcast filter for DVDs?"

I'd say NO. "Make it look good" and forget about clamping for DVD playback. l recently ran some really good looking DVDs* through my waveform monitor, and the Vegas-equivalent composite levels were coming in as high as 115 (see Vegas scopes, composite view). I asked some of the transfer guys at the Sony digital authoring center about this very issue, and as soon as I hear back,I'll post that info here- should be interesting to hear how they do it.

* DVDs were: Stuart Little, Bad Boys II, Daddy Day Care.
DavidNJ wrote on 1/20/2004, 6:24 PM
What about VHS dubs (needed for actors)?
craftech wrote on 1/20/2004, 7:43 PM
What about VHS dubs (needed for actors)?
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There is no substitute for a good proc amp:

http://www.signvideo.com/single_dual_proc-amp_video-processor.htm

John
farss wrote on 1/20/2004, 8:50 PM
Don't quite know why you'd use a proc amp during recording to VHS. Better to get everything right to start with.

To answer the question, I'd worry more about getting things legal when going to VHS than DVD. I've never noticed a problem playing back DVDs causing a TV to loose sync due to bad levels but I have had it happen many times off VHS.
craftech wrote on 1/21/2004, 6:18 AM
Don't quite know why you'd use a proc amp during recording to VHS. Better to get everything right to start with.
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Because you can actually SEE in real time what you are getting without having to jump through hoops using an NLE and you can record a test sample on VHS in less than a minute and play it back to see if it is recording as it looks on the screen. If not you simply twist a knob or two and try it again. No lengthy unintuitive steps involving a barrage of mitigating factors that need to be analyzed if the VHS tape looks like garbage.
Moreover "getting it right to start with" is not always the same each time, especially when it comes to producing a master AVI file which is destined for VHS. You can get it close, but not always "right". Dismissing VHS as horrible looking wihout ever having tried a good proc amp is narrow minded. Many videographers have to first understand that the final product is usually not going to be DV tape. It's going to be DVD or VHS. In my last project, the VHS tape of a musical revue looked as good as the DVD version albeit without a menu. Lots of customers commented on it. Why? Because of the Proc Amp and it's ability to set black levels really well, something an NLE cannot do well if the final destination is to be VHS. Most cameras and NLEs think "legal" is 0 IRE instead of 7.5 IRE. A Proc Amp can adjust that even BEFORE capture.
In addition to that, I always offer a VHS tape and no DVD when I am dealing with high school kids as customers because they are easier to copy protect than DVDs. Plus, if a DVD won't play on a customer's DVD player what do you offer them?...................A VHS tape!

John