Legality

OhMyGosh wrote on 12/26/2013, 12:30 AM
A short story. A mom has a daughter in soccer, she has video she shot of her daughter and teammates practicing, she wants me to edit it so she can post it on YouTube for other coaches to view and critique. Other parents think you shouldn't be sharing video of other people's children. They are fully clothed, practicing in a public place. What are the legal and moral points of view here??? By as upset as some people are, I'm clearly missing something.....Thanks in advance. Cin

Comments

videoITguy wrote on 12/26/2013, 4:10 AM
Was the scene a public venue, or private school grounds? Can anyone from the public attend the venue without cost or registration?
Of the team members other than said daughter are they recognizable with face recognition software?
Did you ask for a public release from each child's guardian?
Sea Skimmer wrote on 12/26/2013, 5:13 AM
sorry to laugh at what is a "serious" issue but I doubt, if he has been asked to edit the video that at a football match he got express permission of every parent/guardian there do you ?

I don't think you need worry to much about putting it on you tube as unless the focus is very clearly on the other children other than the daughter in question. The parents could moan but given the amount of webcams and surveillance cameras on the streets now days everyone is caught on camera at some point whether they know it or not !
musicvid10 wrote on 12/26/2013, 9:16 AM
The questions posted above pertain to the mom who shot the video, not you.
It's not your responsibility to do so, but you can share your concerns with the client if you wish.
That said, sporting events are usually considered exempt from privacy claims, and families of minor participants are usually asked to sign a blanket release up front.
If you're concerned about your role as a vendor, you can choose to not do the job, or request a standard waiver and release from the mom, pretty much SOP these days.
If you've been asked to post the video on your Youtube account, or plan to use it to promote your own business, I wouldn't do that.
OhMyGosh wrote on 12/26/2013, 10:37 AM
Thank you for the replies, but I'm still not sure where I stand. The girls practice at a privately owned soccer club, but having said that, anyone is welcome to go in and watch. She said people go in there and film the children all the time. They then compete at city parks and fields. She said it doesn't cost anything to watch practice, but there is usually a fee to attend the games. Not sure VideoITguy about face recognition software, but you can clearly see the girls and what they are doing, and no she didn't ask anyone for a release of any kind. I was kinda thinking like you Neilap, I can't imagine getting permission from everyone there including coaches, spectators, participants, etc. As you said, the government doesn't ask our permission, nor do most retailers, and I doubt the news channels that show thousands of people at a time, but I guess in the first two cases they don't post to YouTube. Thank you MusicVid for your advice. She wants me to edit it and post it to her account, but I was wondering what that would mean to me legally. I've never had this sort of a deal, so no I don't have any kind of waiver. I just don't get why she can watch, film, but not post. If anyone has any links that might explain it better to me, that would be great. Thanks again for every ones help. Cin
Edit: Just went to YouTube and there are TONS of soccer videos with tons of kids and spectators........
videoITguy wrote on 12/26/2013, 2:34 PM
Just because everyone? is doing it doesn't make it right. Utube and such suffer hundreds of legal issues constantly. You asked a good question and as you have received - you got some perceptive comments.

First, because you mention the site is private - registration is a requirement - then it fits the first case of obtaining a corporate waiver - good luck on that. Just because people walk-in as guests does not cross the line into public space. There is a specific doctrine with private facilities - if you photo any likeness of it at all you are in a vulnerable position. I can't photo the front of Macy's just because I want to.

Better to wait for a public venue to photo a game play, and keep the camera closeups solely on the subject person- everything else wide.
musicvid10 wrote on 12/26/2013, 6:22 PM

A waiver can be three sentences written on a piece of white paper, signed and dated by both parties.

Since her risk is minimal, and yours is none, just ask her to check with the club and venue management first and leave it at that. Don't take the burden of her responsibility upon yourself, no matter how close you are. She's not asking you to smuggle drugs, after all.
OhMyGosh wrote on 12/27/2013, 11:43 AM
'She's not asking you to smuggle drugs, after all.'
Man, does that say it all or what?.......... It's just a bunch of kids playing soccer, what's the deal? Thanks Video for your perspective and input and you Music as always. Unlike many here, I don't usually make enough to do anything that might cause me stress, so I will just leave this one alone, but I will walk away shaking my head not really understanding. And no, I didn't know I couldn't even take a picture of Macys. Thanks again to all. Cin
OhMyGosh wrote on 12/27/2013, 1:01 PM
WTH, OMG, are you kidding me?!?!?! Musicvid has a sense of humor!? Did the 3 ghosts of Christmas visit you? LOL Thanks for the links, they cheered me up. :) Cin
musicvid10 wrote on 12/27/2013, 6:48 PM
OhMyGosh wrote on 12/29/2013, 11:33 AM
LOL, if you only knew that's exactly how I've imagined you! ;)
musicvid10 wrote on 12/29/2013, 11:43 AM
We get legal herbals on Wednesday. I may just regress to the mild-mannered space jockey I was forty years ago. "Ground control to Major Tom . . ."
Markk655 wrote on 1/1/2014, 8:20 PM
OMG,

Not sure if this helps since yours is a 'private place', but may be worth checking.
OhMyGosh wrote on 1/2/2014, 10:43 AM
Thank you Mark for taking the time to find and post. Really interesting and really confusing. The article almost raises more questions than it answers. All these years that I thought I was a law abiding citizen, it appears according to that article that I may be a criminal! Now that I've been found out, yes it's true, I did remove that tag from my mattress also! Great way to spend the New Year.........in prison. ;/
What was up with this: 'New legislation in a number of states has also criminalized photography and recording of farm activities and in some states makes it illegal to possess and distribute such images and recordings.' What kind of 'farm activity' are they referring to? I can only think of one, and I sure as heck don't want to watch, let alone film it!!! What farmer John does on his farm, stays on his farm as far as I'm concerned!! :0 I already live in an area where us locals say that 'the men are men, and the sheep are scared!' It's gonna take a few days to get that visual out of my head........
Seriously, it really makes me think about past pics and vid, and makes me wonder whether it was legal or not. Next time I go on a shoot I'll have to go through my check list, spare battery 'check', extra tapes 'check', tripod 'check', attorney 'check'. Thanks again Mark. Cin
richard-amirault wrote on 1/2/2014, 2:59 PM
RE: farm activities ... from Wikipedia:
" In Utah and Iowa, the recording of undercover videos showing animal cruelty in farming practices is now illegal."
OhMyGosh wrote on 1/2/2014, 6:34 PM
Thanks brighterside, but now it's really getting weird!! (or should I say weirder) So they are talking about animal cruelty? It's ok to do it, but filming it and letting people know about it isn't! This whole topic has taken a strange and bizarre twist in my mind......Thank you though for sharing that. Cin
musicvid10 wrote on 1/2/2014, 10:26 PM
"Farm activities" refers to the controlling interests; Monsanto (crops) and McDonalds (animals).
The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be.
Chienworks wrote on 1/3/2014, 8:52 AM
That seems to contravene 1st amendment rights, dontcha think? I'm not a lawyer, nor do i play one on TV, but i strongly suspect such a law wouldn't survive a constitutional challenge.
musicvid10 wrote on 1/3/2014, 1:41 PM
The challenges have already been made on a bigger scale, and have not passed political muster. We're talking about incredibly powerful forces. A farmer who wants to survive can't choose what genetically modified seeds to plant, how much or where, or what chemicals to apply. Chicken and cattle ranchers no more so, and their animal feed comes from M. Anyone documenting or challenging the "activities," if identified, ends up regretting their choices.
richard-amirault wrote on 1/3/2014, 2:59 PM
A farm is not a public place (most of them anyway) Taking a camera onto (or into a building on) private land to film was not legal to begin with (as I understand it)
Chienworks wrote on 1/5/2014, 3:54 PM
Unless condoned by the owner of the farm. Now it sounds like even with permission it would be illegal.
musicvid10 wrote on 1/5/2014, 7:47 PM
The "owner" of the farm does not have the discretion to permit photographing or documenting of anything agricultural that goes on there. The durable arrangements with M and/or Mc are best described as feudalism, as the farmer would not be able to pay his land and equipment leases or mortgage without them. A handful of docos on PBS if you're interested in learning more
richard-amirault wrote on 1/6/2014, 6:38 AM
Now it sounds like even with permission it would be illegal.

Not knowing the exact wording of the law, only the Wikipedia entry, if you have permission then it would not be undercover.
gpsmikey wrote on 1/6/2014, 8:21 PM
What you discover is that the law isn't exact - the one with the best (?) lawyers is the one that wins. Even if you are in the right, it can cost you big $$$ to defend yourself and the "M" and "Mc" of the world do indeed have the slick attorneys.

mikey