Rex,
I'm a tad loathe to make any recommendations as these are such personal matters, for some something that I might think quite irrelevant they'd find a deal breaker. However even so it'd help if you could be a little more specific as to what you want, the DVX100 is a pretty full on cam, do you still want balanced audio, would you like to add 16:9 or move to HDV etc.

Bob.

I second what jaydeeee says, I have a PV-GS500 as my secondary camera, but there have been times that I used the footage from it as my main. Colors are exceptional, especially outside, and it will shoot 16:9. It's one of the few 3CCD small cams that I am aware of.

You might be interested in this:

I've been eying some of the new pocket cameras that have a DivX movie mode. The Casio models have widescreen DivX based on the "home theater" profile. The reason why is that I could take family video with one, burn both pictures and video clips to disc and view them on my DivX compatible DVD player. I could probably also use a clip here or there in a DVD project in a pinch.

I've been thinking about one of these for my wife as well. She has a non-profit organization that delivers backpacks filled with school supplies to South America. It would be really cool if she could reach into her purse, pull out a pocket camera and capture video as well as stills that would be good enough to use on her promotional DVDs and web videos.

Anyway, as I've read up on these, the quality is supposed to be on par with what you would get from a consumer grade camcorder, and as a company, DivX is only licencing their compression to still cameras, not camcorders, because they feel that the future of home video lies in the movie modes of still cameras rather than home camcorders.

I haven't tried one so I have no firsthand knowledge of the quality.

"could be a little more specific as to what you want, the DVX100 is a pretty full on cam, do you still want balanced audio, would you like to add 16:9 or move to HDV etc." ---

Thanks for the comments so far.

The main goal is something easy to carry around and relatively unobtrusive. Decent video quality is the most important feature. 16x9 wouldn't hurt, but only if it has real resolution. If it is just an automatic crop, I can do that myself in post. I'd like good auto-focus and exposure, but definately with options to do it manually. Thinking about it, I guess for a small cam like this, some level of functional image stabalization could help too.

Audio features like XLR or other balanced are not important. I have a portable audio recorder I could use if I want to get quality audio. Nothing else I have is HDV, so I don't think that matters to me yet.

I looked at a few reviews. Maybe I'm being foolish by not considering HD at this stage of the game.

The Sony HC3 looks small and interesting, but they seem to have stripped it down to the extreme. No focus/zoom ring and no audio inputs at all for any standard connection. Are there other small HDV cams that I should look at?

Canon HV10, really small. But no external audio, period.

The picture on both the Sony and Canon models is so good that the companies have taken off the audio inputs so that people won't use them as prosumer gear.

I've never found a shred of evidence to support that theory.
Conversely I've had plenty of frustrating first hand experiences with "consummers" that demonstrates the exact opposite.

1) Consummer wouldn't buy a camera that was $100 cheaper than the one he wanted as the cheaper one which had way, way more manual control and took a better picture and had better glass didn't have a USB port. I overheard the salesmane trying to convince the customer and thought the opinion of a bystander might add some wieght. Dead wrong. The more expensive camera had more pixels and that really usefull USB port.

2) Almost daily I ask "what are you shooting?", "A wedding", "What are you doing about audio". "What's audio?" or "Look mate I just want a camera".

Or the classic: "How much for a camera?"..."What kind of camera, a still camera or a video camera?"....long silence on the phone..."You want one that takes photos or movies?". "Ah, just I want to shoot a movie"

The majority of us here are probably less than 1% of the market for cameras and you can harldy blame the camera manufacturers for doing their homework and giving their customers what 99% of their customers want, something that fits in a purse and looks dead simple to use that has words like Hyper, High or Ultra in the description.

In the end it's probably a good thing, if it was otherwise demand for our services might be curtailed.

"In the end it's probably a good thing, if it was otherwise demand for our services might be curtailed."

Probably not to worry. I am often amazed at how haphazard a job most people do with putting content in a frame while recording either video or pictures. They seem to have a kind of selective blindness.

Maybe its the same kind of thing that makes it hard to see what kind of features on cameras might really matter.

My HVR-A1 is basically a consumer camera with good audio and threads for screwing in a wide angle lens. I paid a lot of money for those extras: a lot more than they cost to add to the camera. Yeah that is my theory, but the hole in my wallet says that it's true.

There's still plenty to differentiate the pro from the guy fiddling around with a good consumer grade camera: good focus, good mics, fluid head tripods, lighting, editing quality, packaging quality, etc. I wouldn't worry about not being needed just yet ;-)

The HVR-A1U looks interesting. Not counting the audio adapter/microphone, its about the same size as the HDR-HC1, isn't it?

Oddly, I'm having a hard time finding reviews of the A1U through Google.

In case you haven't found it yet, I think this site has thorough reviews:

www.camcorderinfo.com

As to the off-topic discussion about amateurs running the pros out of business, nope, not gonna happen. I am a hobbyist recording school activities and then putting together videos to recap. Trying to get another parent to even use a &%^@# tripod is almost impossible. It is a rare time when I get usable video from any of the legions of people waving a camcorder around at an event. There will always be a need for people who actually know what they are doing.

"In case you haven't found it yet, I think this site has thorough reviews:

www.camcorderinfo.com "

Yes, I looked there. There are a few mentions of the HVR-A1U, going back to 1995, but there doesn't seem to be an actual review. The HC1 and HC3 both have reviews there.

I think the performance and most things on the A1U are the same as the HC1, but the A1U has good audio inputs.

I don't think the amateurs are going to be a threat anytime soon either. But you've seen first hand how they think, I'd bet if Sony offered them a camera without a tapped hole for the tripod and shaved $10 off the price they'd go for it.
If you can't get them to use a tripod what earthly value is any external audio input from a marketing point of view.

And you think external mic inputs are an issue?

The Z1, A1 etc, etc come with an A/V lead that has L+R audio, composite and S-Video. On the new V1 they've removed the S-Video connector, that must save oh, about $0.30 and yet adds another item to inventory. Figure that one out.

Bob.

>>>The main goal is something easy to carry around and relatively unobtrusive. Decent video quality is the most important feature. 16x9 wouldn't hurt, but only if it has real resolution. If it is just an automatic crop, I can do that myself in post. I'd like good auto-focus and exposure, but definately with options to do it manually. Thinking about it, I guess for a small cam like this, some level of functional image stabalization could help too.<<<

Ummm..
The topic is DRIFTING ONCE AGAIN (more rampant sony forum A.D.D?).

RexA:
Hmmm...do YOU even know what you want?
Based on the above, well...I guess you're talking about a PV-GS500 and like competition. Hate to break it to you.
Excel. color, OIS (stabilization), 16:9, SMALLish in stature (unobtrusive), degree of manual focus and decent auto-focus. Exceptional overall in the SD category, blah-blah....

Then the very next post you're off in another world....HDcams. Well it's time to wake up a bit. Was the orig post a load of sh*t?
If you want all of the above in an HD cam - then get ready to ante up, and throw away nearly all of your size/ease/features/audio stipulations.
C'mon man, get real. That HD post deserves it's own thread/question.

A.D.D.:

How this thread turned into the discussion of "amatuers taking over seasoned pros" positions is not only ridiculous - it's annoying.
Think about those future people doing searches for info based on the orig topic/post please.

*reply and amatuer vs. seasoned professionals:
NOBODY can make any assumption either way. That means everyone here.
The seasoned professional is just that - a professional that will be working as long as they want to. This is their art and chosen profession.
But, like so many times with art and artists - all it takes is a great film/story/filming and reviews to launch an amatuer filmographer into professional status (even if this is merely "perception" based on the film/short films/etc. success).

It's random, out of your control so don't bother trying to disect it. You can all argue till you're blue in the face but that's the way it is.

BACK ON TOPIC:
What HD cams are you considering at this point now?
What is your budget btw?

As for recommendations for the Panasonic PV-G500 -- if you're considering that one, you'd better find one quick -- they've been discontinued. Panasonic has announced only 3 remaining miniDV models (in consumer models) this year, and only the PV-GS320 has 3 CCD's. (There no longer is a 500-equivalent model.)

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Cuts-MiniDV-Down-to-Three.htm

Tim L
(BTW, no experience with any of these cameras -- nothing of my own to recommend...)

"RexA:
Hmmm...do YOU even know what you want?
Based on the above, well...I guess you're talking about a PV-GS500 and like competition. Hate to break it to you.
Excel. color, OIS (stabilization), 16:9, SMALLish in stature (unobtrusive), degree of manual focus and decent auto-focus. Exceptional overall in the SD category, blah-blah....

Then the very next post you're off in another world....HDcams.

BACK ON TOPIC:
What HD cams are you considering at this point now?
What is your budget btw?"
------

I was sincere when I made the original post. I haven't done any looking at what cams are out there for a while. I agree that the PV-GS500 is a good answer to my original question.

After your first reply, I read reviews of that and other similar cams. Then I got to thinking that if I am going to buy a new cam at all, now might be the time to look into HD. So I looked at a couple small low-end HD cams. Sony HC1 looked ok, but was replaced by the HC3. The HC3 has no audio inputs and I figured I'd soon be kicking myself if I went that way. The HVR-A1U seems to be an extended-feature version of the HC1, so looks like my best option if I go HD. It seems to be only a little bit bigger than the PV-GS500 -- I'm guessing much of that in the audio blob on top -- still a good bit smaller than my DVX-100. Far from the top of the HD ranks, but small and probably better vid than my bigger Pany. Lots more money than decent SD but still cheaper than I payed for the DVX back then.

Like I said, I'm a bit puzzled why I can't find the same kind of complete reviews for the A1U that I've seen for the HC1 or HC3 or Canon HV10. Right now, I've decided to give myself a day or two to settle and think, but I'm leaning toward the A1U.
---

I admit I'm fickle about what I want. Recently someone here (Craftech maybe?) posted about buying legitimate Photoshop cheap on eBay. That got me interested in maybe finally stepping up and buying it. As I looked, the same kind of what-if creep entered my shopping decision and now I have the whole Adobe CS Premuim suite. Pretty cheap though.

It happens. What can I say?