levels loudness normalise

rik wrote on 2/20/2020, 4:56 AM

I have some issues concerning audio levels, although i make since years the same kind of (wedding)movies over and again.

I do not remember or recall to have these problems in the past with previous vegas installs (12;13 etc).

Let me explain:

I always have in my films a mix of regular musictracks and live recorded vocal speeches (of different sources: handrecorders, mixerfeeds, cameramic,..).

When editing, i use a decent headphone to prelisten.

To level it all... i select all audio and 'normalise them'.

The (normalised) vocals do sound always too silent in comparison with the music tracks (which are also normalised).

To level this, i drag the vocals a 6dB up on my audiotracks, otherwise they are too silent comparing the music.

As this may cause clipping, i have a brickwall limiter in the master mixer.

This end result does sound pleasing in my headphones, nice smooth.

But then i play the result on my TV....i do hear regular unpleasant shifts of loudness of volume.

Some musictracks play louder than other (although they are normalised).

Some musictracks (newer music: +2000) have too much subbass than older produced music (1980's) which lacks bass.

Some vocal-recordings appear too loud or silent too one or another.

There seems to be a bigger shift of overall volumes watching tv, than in my headphones.

I have to change the tv volume a lot.

Lowering because a musictrack sounds too loud, raising because i cannot understand the spoken vocals (althought the gain is +6db as i mentioned before).

Raising coz of a musictrack is too silent.

The bassdifferences...i try to neglect them (not going to eq while watching)

Very frustating...

Instantly, you can conclude...my TV-audio isn't perfect balanced.

But i have a new oled tv since a couple of months and the problems are exactly the same as on my older tv set.

Had/have it on both of them.

Watching other different sources on my tv set from different stations, youtube, chromecasts....etc my tv - audio sound ok, everything is leveled nice.

....Watching a edited movie created on vegaspro....the problem occurs.

I'm thinking of using an additional compressor throughout the movie-edit for my next movies...this could level things more out maybe?

What are your audio-setups or advice?

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 2/20/2020, 5:43 AM

Normalisation only increases or decreases the audio level of the loudest point of the audio track to the level that you've set in the normalisation FX - it does not even out the level of the entire audio event and nor does it mean that the audio level of that audio event is then going to be a match to the levels of the surrounding audio events. That you need to adjust the levels of the audio tracks is part of the nearly one hundred years old film making art of audio mixing.

I wouldn't recommend headphones as an effective way of audio mixing (unless perhaps they are really high-end headphones). If you are mixing for a specific device like your TV, consider getting external speakers that have a similar sound and performance to your TV set's speakers and in Vegas Pro use the volume control on each audio event to 'mix' the audio to create a result pleasant for you.

A compressor may help control the audio in some audio events, but a compressor is not an alternative to 'mixing'. You do need to use volume controls at event and/or track level to create an audio mix.

It might be a good idea to look for tutorials on the internet (such as YouTube) about audio mixing. An industry leader in audio - iZotope - has a lot of good material on their website about audio mixing.

Some musictracks (newer music: +2000) have too much subbass than older produced music (1980's) which lacks bass

That's just the development in technology over the decades. Look for any bass in a 1930s 78 recording and it will be hard to find. It also depends on where you get you source music from - LP, cassette, MP3, YT, streaming services or the original master. All will influence the audio quality that you have to deal with. Part of audio mixing these days is EQ particularly when dealing with source material of differing audio characteristics.

wwjd wrote on 2/20/2020, 6:20 AM

free loudmax https://loudmax.blogspot.com/

thresh -12 output -1

rraud wrote on 2/20/2020, 12:04 PM

- Stereo or 5:1
- Can you post a sample file somewhere?
- What render template and customization?
- What plug-in are you using
- A screenshot of the timeline may show issues.

The VP normalize is peak and does change the dynamic range like the Sound Forge RMS normalize.
What will the final render be for, web streaming, YouTube, broadcast submission.

Headphones are not recommenced for a final mix, though are good for alternate listen check like another set of monitors or TVs. A 'good mix' should sound decent on just about anything. I check mixes on multiple playback systems. Studio monitors with and w/o sub-woofer, home stereo, TVs, laptops, transistor radio, headphones.

rik wrote on 2/20/2020, 6:18 PM

- Stereo or 5:1

STEREO
- Can you post a sample file somewhere?

IT IS 50 MINUTES LONG...DON'T BOTHER ;-)
- What render template and customization?

HD, AUDIO BEST
- What plug-in are you using

MAINLY WAVEHAMMER AS LIMITER IN THE MASTERING
- A screenshot of the timeline may show issues.

The VP normalize is peak and does change the dynamic range like the Sound Forge RMS normalize.
What will the final render be for, web streaming, YouTube, broadcast submission.

TV STREAMING, TV WITH HDMI

Headphones are not recommenced for a final mix, though are good for alternate listen check like another set of monitors or TVs. A 'good mix' should sound decent on just about anything. I check mixes on multiple playback systems. Studio monitors with and w/o sub-woofer, home stereo, TVs, laptops, transistor radio, headphones.