Whether you believe this action is right or wrong, this is exactly what Utube is set up to do - yes, police the wildwest of the current internet. If it is actually doing this thru the current flags then Utube should be applauded.

Now mind you this does not help the business model you had in mind- so the Question becomes, do you want to get around this obstacle? OR do you want to do the right thing?

I Invite feedback from all corners?

> "Is RIAA going to sue every dance studio in the world for choreographing dances to copyrighted music??"

Actually Yes. Dance studios pay a fee to use the music in live performances. If they sell videos of the performance, they are required to also pay a duplication and distribution fee. So yes, they are required to pay and many of them do.

Artists need to be paid for the use of their music for public performances.

~jr

Copyright laws....sigh. They're a maze. Vastly different country to country. Try Vimeo.

"Any suggestions?"

Yes. Ask the music Publisher and record Producer for permission first.
That way, you are guaranteed to get more than zero favorable reactions from the music owners, as you are now.
The dance studio does not have the right to give you usage and recording rights for the music.

"The dance studio does not have the right to give you usage and recording rights for the music. "
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I am not the one looking for that, they are.

The dance studios ask me to create a 3 - 4 minute web video for them of recitals I shot for them. They want the web video to embed on THEIR websites. I guess THEY need to get permission if they want it on YouTube otherwise I guess I'll make them a Quicktime version from now on.

John

John, I see that you might be confused about the role of producer, editor, or uploader? It does not matter. This has been discussed endlessly over the years on virtually every creative arts forum in existence.

"not the one looking for that, they are"?

You have very specific responsibilities in the role you chose, the business model you are playing with......please review again.

In lieu of getting limited use rights, they could always hire a piano player.
That doesn't guarantee Youtube will miss it, but makes it less likely they'll catch it.
;?)

I've been using Vimeo for years without any videos being dropped for copyright issues. Until recently. Finally got flagged for using a Celtic Woman song. I guess some music publishers are more proactive than others.

simple - supply the studio with a web ready version and let them post it to THEIR site.

my bug bear is being picked up on youtube for needle drop music i've purchased, and trying to sort the mess out. finally gave up.

I'm sure everyone is aware that the song we've sung on most people's birthdays is copyrighted. Here's an interesting article.

http://priceonomics.com/who-owns-the-copyright-to-happy-birthday/

And a quote that seems to be the heart of the issue.

Don’t worry, you can still sing it in the shower. Warner/Chappell only sends out bills when the song is used commercially, or for public performances (defined under current copyright law as “a place open to the public, or any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered”).

Clearly, YT isn't going to know whether its "commercial" or "family", so they err on the side that everything is commercial. So, if I film a family member's wedding and post a clip on YT, is that a "commercial" enterprise when it includes copyrighted music? Clearly not, but the video gets tagged anyway. My daughter's dance recital many years ago was held in a public school in which most likely only family members of the kids attended. Would that be a commercial enterprise if I posted my daughter's performance on YT and subject to copyright restrictions? The bottom line, to me at least, is that the whole issue is really murky. I might add that although YT tagged my wedding video as using copyrighted material, it was still kept online and people could still watch.

wwaag

I'd like to applaud the responses in this thread. In another life I was a software publisher and had my products stolen, often within hours of release, the software was all over the internet. I gave up and got out of the business.

Regarding the response here that said Vimeo is enforcing music copyright, I also found that out. Started about 4 months ago. What drives me nuts is I have purchased the license to music. When I upload it to Vimeo I have to prove I own the license. After sending them the license, the video is released. This is great and I don't mind, but if the next day I find an error in the video and need to upload it again, I have to prove again I own the license. In other words every time I upload the video, I have to prove I have the license. Pain in the butt, but I guess I understand.

I am not familiar with the type of music needed for dance studios, but it is amazing how cheap you can buy a license these days and the number of sites available.

Having said all of this, I got to admit it is tempting to use copyrighted music especially when the music is "perfect" and I'm using it for a family video. But I do understand and agree with the laws.

my 2 cents,
Rich

The dance studio very likely has public performance licenses for the music they're using.

But to distribute or publicly play an audio/video recording with music, you need a sync license for the musical composition and a master use license for the musical recording. These licenses are negotiated directly with the copyright holders. Typically the copyright holder for the musical composition is a music publishing company. Typically the copyright holder for the musical recording is a record company. You need to find out who the copyright holders are and contact them to ask about licensing.

If you want to avoid the copyright issue altogether, then you can't distribute the recordings or make them available publicly. Your best bet would be to use some kind of private web video hosting instead of YouTube or Vimeo.

Is there not some legal precedent if the music is incidental that comes under news reporting, for instance I often run into issues filming at equestrian events where there is music or dressage to music where the relevant licences are in place for the event but if trying to Record for friends they often get picked up on YouTube which is manageable but if you want commentary as well can be problematic. Obviously with friends and family you can send private links but many times people want to share with the brorder community.

I d often wondered about the exact legality, I've challenged a few and been ok, others I've had to try and strip out the bits of music concerned or sometimes YouTube will give an option to do that for you.

Youtube's terms of use say for private use of content only anyway... *shifty eyes* :)

Either Youtube selectively restricts the copyrighted content or the content owners who registered with Youtube can selectively restrict videos. A video I put up years ago had the theme song from PeeWee's Big Adventure. A couple years ago the audio got removed due to copyright. Meh, ok, whatever. It only had a hundred or so view by family. I went searching for the song on Youtube and has several hits of people uploading the films soundtrack, complete with the "I don't own this and don't mean to break copyright". Those songs had hundreds of thousands of hits and were NOT taken down, just monetized!

So I've come to the conclusion that either YT or the copyright owners don't mind the theft as long as they make a decent $ off it. So the solution here is John's videos need to be super-popular then they will just be monetized by the copyright owner vs removed.

I've also has stock music I made in Cinescore & public domain content bring up the copyright flag on YT. It seems some people just take all the content they can find that they think people might use, put that together on YT & register as a copyright owner to get the monitization off the copyright of their "work".

You could also plan ahead and check the add supported music conditions on YouTube here https://www.youtube.com/audiolibrary/ad_supported_music and then select music that the owner is happy to play world wide, you can't make money from the vid or monetise it on YouTube but if thsts not the intent it seems like a sensible compromise where both parties win, I tried it with a short animation test I did where I wanted to use a current chart track and it worked, obviously your at risk of the conditions changing in the future but at least it takes some of the guess work out of it and it's another option.

A typical dance recital for a large studio for me may contain up to 30 dances per performance. There is one I shoot every June that has two performances with around 28 dances per performance. So we are talking about ballet, jazz, theatre dance, modern, and hip hop.

Aside from the DVDs they usually ask me to do a web video, but the choreographer (owner) sometimes wants a web video as follows:

"John, in 'Graphic Illusion', start it where the two leads come in stage left and the ensemble begins the three lifts ending with the Échappé. And for the 'Don't Stop Me Now' number start from fourth position out and end where they start the fan kicks, etc."
She may also ask me to include a section of something they did two years ago.

In the end the web video will have maybe five numbers and be a total of 4 - 7 minutes long. It's a bunch of snippets, not entire pieces.

I like the suggestion Leslie made above which is to hand it to them and let them hand it to whomever handles their website. I do appreciate all the input.

John

I HAVE done dance recitals long before the Internet was even around - media was cable tv videotape at that time.

The question is a sync license, and I doubt very seriously, that just being a visual editor and then handing the product back to the dance choreographer, will improve a thing in the outcome. They will just ask their 16 yr old child to upload it to Utube without further ado. And then where do you stand in your credits for authoring? What is your business model?

copyrights must be respected, but aren't.

dance companies/weddings/whatever should buy and use RF/royalty free tracks only, since that's legal. it's not ok to benefit from/misuse commercial top-40 songs.

there's sync/broadcast/mechanical licensing in place for a reason

And then where do you stand in your credits for authoring? What is your business model?
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For web videos for a dance school I don't include credits at all and they pay me cash.

John

dance companies/weddings/whatever should buy and use RF/royalty free tracks only, since that's legal. it's not ok to benefit from/misuse commercial top-40 songs.

Tell that to a couple who is selecting dance music for their wedding. They will probably tell you where to go and find someone who will give them what they want. Presumably, it's "legal" for the DJ to "play" the music, but it's "illegal" for you to record people dancing to that music unless you "dub" that music with something that is RF??

Instead of pointing out that everyone doesn't understand shooting dance recitals, maybe look at the broad scope of responses which are all very similar.
It looks like your business model (cash or not) is broken and violating copyright law. This isn't an issue of the studio, You Tube, or anyone else not understanding what's going on, it's that you seem to be selling a product that you don't understand. Same goes for recitals, school plays, inclusion of branded items and and so many more avenues of potential revenue.
You have to pay for the music used. It's a broken system that you likely won't be able to fix. The cheapest commercial use of decent music (broad interpretation of decent;) is https://www.songfreedom.com/ at $100 and more often $200 per use. What you pay is dependent on your distribution options and volume.
And if you wish to continue on your current route, you'll need to learn self-hosting and maybe look into JWPlayer.
You have to work within the law. If I drove a taxi I'd make more money not paying for insurance, tags, etc... and driving faster, but it doesn't work that way. You have to learn how to successfully operate within the industries restrictions.

wwaag, you can sell, successfully, a wedding film or video with licensed music.

Every client happy with the final music choice.

http://www.icvideo.net/kentucky-wedding-video/