Yup, same thing happens to me, did not happen in 9.0 with the exact same .veg file. I do remember, however, reading the "cross at the zero line" discussion in the distant past, so it must have existed before. I have been using Vegas since 7.0, and it never happened to me, and I do plenty of these vertical drops.

xberk, you weren't kidding when you said the spike was LOUD.
I brought up an old project, added two points at 0 and -12, hit play and my meters spiked at +58.9 and +53.0
Interestingly enough, if I move them to a spot on the timeline with music, it won't pop.
Move them to a silent spot and POP.

Mike
9.0a XP Pro 32-bit

Yes, I get the same results. Never had that happen before, under the same circumstances.

Does SCS consider this a bug? I don't think a +50 dB pop could ever be an intended behavior.

If someone has the time, please put in a report on this. I can't update my report that I put in early on -- it's been closed. SCS was not ignoring it -- but I let it drop as it there was an easy work around ...Also, this thread does show that it's unique to 9.0a and it's not just dynamic volume changes. Despite everything. I'm still using 9.0a and mostly with great success.

Yes, I noticed the same thing a few days ago. And it's a super loud pop too. Just moving it slightly, like you all said, resolves the issue.

I've been unable to repo this problem and hence cannot report it.
It might need a very specific set of file types and conditions to repo. If that's the case we need to accurately define them in our report else it's going to go nowhere.


Then again I'm kind of glad I haven't repo'ed it. The thought of my sound card outputting +54dBm is a bit of a worry. If I remember my audio theory correctly that's over 100,000V.

Bob.

+54dBm referenced to .7746 volts into 600 ohms is 388.22 volts RMS. Obviously, a soundcard can't produce this kind of voltage, it will simply clip at about 2 volts or so.

"Obviously, a soundcard can't produce this kind of voltage"

Shucks, no smoke then :(

I mentally did 10^(54/10) * 1Volt instead of 10^(54/20) * 0.7746 (if you want to be really accurate).

Good news is you made me dust off my old Casio fx-115. It must be over 30 years old and it still works.

Bob.

I've been unable to repo this problem and hence cannot report it.

Bob -- this problem is somewhat random. I don't see it all the time, nor can I exactly repo it every time. But it does appear. I can't say for sure but it seems unrelated to media. In my case I'm using AVI files generated by Vegas Capture. The fix is easy enough but still I wouldn't want to see it go unresolved in 9.0b .. I did a little screen capture demo of the problem I'm seeing here. I submitted this to SCS. Will advise in this thread if they can repo the problem. - Paul

Vertical Drop Audio Pop Screen capture - Password: vegas

OK,
I guess the video should convince SCS something is remiss. Just in case a couple of questions:

What is you projects audio properties i.e. Sample Rate, Bit Depth and Resample Quality? Do the first two match the clip's properties?

Bob.

i wrote about my pops some time ago - when moving focus away from vegas, then coming back i'd find odd pops here and there on the tl. i even got the when adding and removing media.

i can't replicate them, they're totally random in nature, and, thankfully!!!, don't render.

i believe bob experienced one one time?

anyawy, as much as a pita as they are, since i know they wont render, i'll live with it in the hope 9b sorts this, and STILL no rectangle tool with chromakey picker!!!!

+50 dB is nothing

in 9.0a I got a pop at +650dB. Which of course is insane.

After which any rendering would slow down to a crawl, and the end product would be silence with anything after the pop.

never had this happen in 9.0

What is you projects audio properties i.e. Sample Rate, Bit Depth and Resample Quality? Do the first two match the clip's properties?

Bob -- Yep. As it happens Sample rate and Bit depth on audio match up to the clip. But the point is that I don't hear these POPS in 9.0 or any other version. I use these kind of "drastic ducks" or "vertical drops" fairly often to even out live sound on what we called "butt cuts" or "straight cuts" and SCS calls the "zero line". When 9.0a first arrived I was loading projects started in 9.0 and noticed the POPS right away. I work around it now. We shall see what SCS says about it this time around. Thanks everyone for your help on this. - Paul

I remember this pop problem from way back when I used Cool Edit Pro (Audition now) and the recommendation to make the cut at a zero crossover point.

Ed

Like Ed, I've experienced this in Cool Edit Pro and, from time to time, in Vegas 4 & 5.
I used the same work-around everyone else seems to have found to make the "pop" go away.

Jack

Ok. SCS responded to the Vertical Drop POP thing as follows:

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. You are experiencing this 'popping' noise because the audio envelope is being used like a cut, and cutting on a non-zero point will create a 'pop' noise in the audio. We have been able to reproduce this in all versions of Vegas, as well as in Sound Forge. Basically, it is a characteristic of audio editing. If you make a cut or drastically drop volume on a non-zero crossing point, you will hear a resulting 'pop'.

Ok. So I accept their point that using a 90 degree vertical drop will create a pop in all versions even though I haven't seen it before. Several in this thread have said as much. It doesn't really matter to me as I'm using 9.0a and I know that the vertical drops MAY cause the POP and did cause some POPS when I loaded projects begun in 9.0. It's easily solved and no big deal (ONCE YOU KNOW WHAT'S DOING IT). Many more serious problems for them to solve in 9.0b so I have no plans to follow up on this.

So my question is what's a "non-zero crossing point" -- and is there such a thing as a "zero crossing point" .. I'm just curious about the terms SCS is using.

Strange,, my version 8c must be defective cause aint no pops, open the same project in 9 a and it pops. simple fix and may be expected behavior with audio pros, definitly not on the seemingly growing list of issues with 9

"So my question is what's a "non-zero crossing point" -- and is there such a thing as a "zero crossing point" .. I'm just curious about the terms SCS is using."

A zero crossing point is where the waveform has zero value, where it crosses the X axis. If you joint or cut between two pieces of audio at any other point then you create a waveform with a very steep slope and hence a click or a plop. This is why by default Vegas adds a tiny fade at every audio cut. It's also why Sound Forge has the ability to Snap To Zero Crossing and Match Slope. The latter because you don't want a very sudden change in the direction of the waveform either.

The worst case would happen if a cut was made where between a waveform at the maximum positive value and the maximum negative value, that would create a fairly nasty click and worst of all it'd be beyond the Nyquist limit if it was in one sample time.

Now I have a problem with all of this. This has never been an issue before with Vegas. If this is the problem it should be consistent. My only conclusion is at best support are clueless, at worst this is a deliberate snow job. There's another problem. You simply cannot create a level of +54dB! That's as wrong as it is absurd. You can because of how digitial audio is metered get to maybe +4dB.

Also in the video showing the problem the fade points were not in the middle of loud audio.

Can I suggest this issue needs to be raised in the audio forum. Peter (SonyPCH) is on the ball and once he sees that video and is told the meters are reading insane values I'm certain he will get some action on this. I've had another unsettling problem with audio and the later versions of Vegas that leads me to think something, at some point, has been messed with on the audio side of Vegas.

Bob.

This problem was one that Sony would not entirely cop to -- it persisted in 9.0a, 9.0b and 9.0c --- I don't believe it occurred in V8 or any other version ..

Good news. Seems to be fixed in 9.0d .. NO AUDIO POP on VERTICAL DROP.

Not a huge problem as it was easy to work around and it seemed to occur at random points on the timeline so some here never saw it at all. Nevertheless, SONY was listening. It was hardly a priority fix -- but it seems to be fixed NOW! Finally.

THANKS SCS !!

xberk,
Zoom all the way in on your audio timeline and tell us how Sony is doing this:

Are they scanning and moving your cut to a zero crossing?
Or is it just the "Quickfade audio events" switch that has been present in every version of Vegas?

BTW, it is not a Vegas problem, and yes it does occur in Vegas Pro 8. If you hard cut an audio wave at anywhere except a zero crossing, it will click -- simple physics.