Low resolution DVD's

Aza wrote on 4/10/2003, 1:24 AM
Hi all. Guess my problem was my fault, but being new to DVD authoring and all It just didn't occur to me. I was editing a video together and wanted to fit 3 hours into one DVD. I did some tests at high resolution (720x576) and compared with low resolution (352x288) the low res one looked a lot better on a regular TV. So, I wanted to use this resolution and checked to make sure it was a valid DVD res and it was so I was happy. Authoured my DVD in DVDA and went to prepare it and oops, it doesn't support resolutions of that size and want's to recompress everything. Is there any way to get it to work at that resolution without recompressing the video.

Cheers
Aza

Comments

yirm wrote on 4/10/2003, 1:59 AM
> I was editing a video together and wanted to fit 3 hours into one DVD.

Sounds a little ambitious, but it's possible, I guess.

> I did some tests at high resolution (720x576) and compared with low resolution (352x288) the low res one looked a lot better on a regular TV.

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying you want your video letterboxed? One way you can do this is to use Vegas' Event Pan/Crop tool. If your video is 352x288, but your project is 720x480 (NTSC), it will be stretched. But by using the Event Pan/Crop tool, you can type in 720x480, and your clip will be letterboxed. This means it will not be stretched. Also the MPEG2 file size will be smaller, because of all that non-changing black border.

Other things to do to reduce final file size are to use a lower bit rate when rendering to MPEG2. I also just tried the 24p template. It worked fine on my TV/DVD player which are both standard. For low res video (from the web) I wasn't able to detect a difference. It took substantially less time to render, and the file size was smaller as well.

Anyway, if I understand what you want, use the event pan/crop to letterbox the video. (I actually have a question on the Vegas board to find out if there's another way of letterboxing video according to its original dimensions without having to use the event pan/crop.

BTW, I just rendered some video I got from the web. It's a 2 minute video of that Saddam statue toppling. The original size is 320x240.

1) Letterboxed, 24p NTSC video stream - 27 MB
2) Letterboxed, NTSC video stream - 34 MB
3) Full screen, 24p NTSC video stream - 55 MB
4) Full screen, NTSC video stream - 68 MB

-Jeremy
Johnny7777 wrote on 4/10/2003, 12:59 PM
I got a 3 hour billiard video on DVD with menu's and the resolution looked fantastic as good as the original video tape. It took me a while to figure this out but it worked. I first captured to mpeg2 using a custom setting of 6 Mb/s with my ATI all in wonder card. Then when I was finished inserting the menu's etc. I had to optimize the video I reduced the bitrate to around 3,020 so it would fit on a 4.4 GB DVD. It took some time to render but when it finished it looked great. Hope this helps.
RBartlett wrote on 4/10/2003, 2:14 PM
DVD spec allows for a number of stream types for the video portion of the multiplex, not unlike the different audio types. However the adherence to the video modes is supposed to be mandatory/recommended in the players and optional in the encoders.

Look at the Philips external set top DVD+RW recorders for instance. The latest firmware or the 890 model gives you 6hrs on a + disc. It does this by running to 360x288 PAL, 360x240 NTSC. OK, so you might ask why a DVD would be used to give you resolution that is just about VHS quality. Well, the consumer can decide. I understand SoFo's choice not to be all things DVD with DVDA. The DVD format and almost all chipsets give you MPEG-1 capability for a DVD multiplex, I don't mean VCD either, that is another optional player thing.

I think this is the basis of the original thread. I believe that Vegas won't get in your way, but currently DVDA will. Check out www.mediachance.com for DVDLab (there is even a 30 day demo link over at CreativeCow.net for it). It supports these formats to allow you to edit your timeshifted set top recordable DVD stuff, and maybe other sources (like DVB transport streams).

I wouldn't get on SoFo's case over this. DVDLab is shareware and targets a whole wealth of user types, not unlike TMGGEnc. One extra remark is that DVDLab actually looks more like Vegas than DVDA! But it don't MPEG or AC3, but is familiar with the fingerprints for both to mark up your authored wares right.
Aza wrote on 4/11/2003, 1:00 AM
Thanks Jeremy,maybe I didn't explain well enough. I don't want my footage letterboxed, I just wanted to be able to write out fullscreen but low res mpg2 files (352x288). This is a standard resolution for DVD AFAIK but DVDA wouldn't let me do it. I've just got home from work after letting Vegas reencode from my low res file back to 720x576 (To see if it looked better than straight rendered 720x576). It looked pretty much the same as a straight render, and I get lots of artifacts on the fast moving bits but I might just have to live with it. Oh well.

I've heard that deinterlacing first can help with removing artifacts if the source is interlaced (D.V. for instance), is this true?

As far as encoding goes, I might just have to try and find another DVD authoring tool but that'd suck after paying for DVDA. I did a test encode with TMPEGENC and it wasn't better than MainConcept...Oh well.

Oh another question, which I should maybe post elsewhere, is why is my audio recompressed when I prepare my DVD? I already exported it in Audio Layer2.

Thanks guys
Aaron

RBartlett wrote on 4/11/2003, 2:17 AM
DVDA doesn't yet support MPEG1-LayerII audio, AC3 or PCM (5.1 or 2.0 AC3 in many different bitrates). It is a non-American peculiarity to support it, as US decks don't have to (but usually do in the global market they trade into).

DVDA isn't wasted. AC3 encoding comes with it, typically for about the same outlay as SoFo's standalone AC3 encoder. Also, you sometimes want a nice simple full size 720 DVD, which it'll do nicely with motion menus and backgrounds without having to use external compositors. Smashing support for music compilation (with video) and slideshows are quite good.

Don't forget to take a look at DVD-Lab for low res DVD authoring, or complex menus. For the time being, it is more money out of your pocket, but will make up for the few short-falls of DVDA. You get 30 days of demo use free anyway until Apple buy MediaChance!

One day DVDA might support low res DVD, but LP, SLP, EXLP discs probably aren't the market that SoFO want to target. Cutting out the adverts isn't illegal anywhere, but keeping timeshift TV as a movie archive is rarely legal in the western world. Once a film has been broadcast on TV it doesn't lose its copyright. People's camcorder memories and small to medium scale films usually want the quality of D1 frame sizes and an hour to 90mins play time max.

If editing out the adverts is all you wanted, maybe VirtualDub and DVD-Lab (perhaps TMPGEnc too) was all you should have had installed?
RBartlett wrote on 4/11/2003, 2:17 AM
DVDA doesn't yet support MPEG1-LayerII audio, AC3 or PCM (5.1 or 2.0 AC3 in many different bitrates). It is a non-American peculiarity to support it, as US decks don't have to (but usually do in the global market they trade into).

DVDA isn't wasted. AC3 encoding comes with it, typically for about the same outlay as SoFo's standalone AC3 encoder. Also, you sometimes want a nice simple full size 720 DVD, which it'll do nicely with motion menus and backgrounds without having to use external compositors. Smashing support for music compilation (with video) and slideshows are quite good.

Don't forget to take a look at DVD-Lab for low res DVD authoring, or complex menus. For the time being, it is more money out of your pocket, but will make up for the few short-falls of DVDA. You get 30 days of demo use free anyway until Apple buy MediaChance!

One day DVDA might support low res DVD, but LP, SLP, EXLP discs probably aren't the market that SoFO want to target. Cutting out the adverts isn't illegal anywhere, but keeping timeshift TV as a movie archive is rarely legal in the western world. Once a film has been broadcast on TV it doesn't lose its copyright. People's camcorder memories and small to medium scale films usually want the quality of D1 frame sizes and an hour to 90mins play time max.

If editing out the adverts is all you wanted, maybe VirtualDub and DVD-Lab (perhaps TMPGEnc too) was all you should have had installed?
RBartlett wrote on 4/11/2003, 2:18 AM
DVDA doesn't yet support MPEG1-LayerII audio, AC3 or PCM (5.1 or 2.0 AC3 in many different bitrates). It is a non-American peculiarity to support it, as US decks don't have to (but usually do in the global market they trade into).

DVDA isn't wasted. AC3 encoding comes with it, typically for about the same outlay as SoFo's standalone AC3 encoder. Also, you sometimes want a nice simple full size 720 DVD, which it'll do nicely with motion menus and backgrounds without having to use external compositors. Smashing support for music compilation (with video) and slideshows are quite good.

Don't forget to take a look at DVD-Lab for low res DVD authoring, or complex menus. For the time being, it is more money out of your pocket, but will make up for the few short-falls of DVDA. You get 30 days of demo use free anyway until Apple buy MediaChance!

One day DVDA might support low res DVD, but LP, SLP, EXLP discs probably aren't the market that SoFO want to target. Cutting out the adverts isn't illegal anywhere, but keeping timeshift TV as a movie archive is rarely legal in the western world. Once a film has been broadcast on TV it doesn't lose its copyright. People's camcorder memories and small to medium scale films usually want the quality of D1 frame sizes and an hour to 90mins play time max.

If editing out the adverts is all you wanted, maybe VirtualDub and DVD-Lab (perhaps TMPGEnc too) was all you should have had installed?
RBartlett wrote on 4/11/2003, 2:18 AM
I meant - DVDA doesn't support MPeg-1-layer II audio.
It does support the PCM and AC3 !