MAGIX AVC (.avc) vs SONY AVC (.m2ts) rendering issues

colin-anderson wrote on 2/10/2018, 12:40 PM

Hi,

I'm working on an interlaced 1920x1080 project for a blu ray disk and I'm having some problems with the rendering output. I would like to render out using the MAGIX AVC (Blu-ray 1920x1080@60i, 25Mbps template) because the render quality is visibly superior than my other option which is Sony AVC (1920x1080@60i, either AVCHD or blu ray template, at a maximum of 21,999,616Mbps). I run into a problem with one of the source files, which is an interlaced, uncompressed avi animation. As you can see below, when rendering out in MAGIX AVC, a sort of image separation occurs. When rendering in the Sony AVC, the separation doesn't occur. The media properties are exacty the same for both.

MAGIX AVC render

SONY AVC (.avc or .m2ts)

Some may say "just render in Sony AVC in that case". But as mentionned earlier, the quality of the MAGIX AVC render is visibly better:

MAGIX AVC render

SONY AVC (.avc or .m2ts)

It is particularly noticeable where text is present. The Sony AVC shows compression artifacts around the text where as the MAGIX AVC render doesn't. The MAGIX AVC render also shows more detail. The video source file (above screenshots) comes from a Sony camcorder m2ts file (1920X1080@60i, 16Mbps).

Another thing that I have noticed when comparing the two renders is that I end up with an extra frame on the MAGIX AVC render. The project is pretty long and I am forced to render the project in sections (which I'll join together into a single file) otherwise Vegas crashes. Every section ends up with an extra frame and since I'm rendering the audio separately in Vegas 13 (AC Pro), the audio and video don't match up once muxed.

So if someone can help me iron out these issues that would be awesome. Otherwise I'll have to render in Sony AVC, which would be disappointing.

Last but not least, does anyone know if Magix has any plans to make the Magix AVC/AAC Blu ray templates compliant for DVD Architect?

Thank you!

Comments

Marco. wrote on 2/10/2018, 1:03 PM

Did you use the render templates you mentioned above without any modification?

When rendering to Magix AVC you could try to disable resampling in the project properties (assumed you use Vegas Pro 15, latest build).

colin-anderson wrote on 2/10/2018, 1:08 PM

Hi Marco, thanks for taking the time to respond. I guess I left out some important details. Yes, resampling is disabled, both in project properties and for each files on the timeline. The template is untouched. Vegas version is Pro 15 build 261.

Marco. wrote on 2/10/2018, 1:20 PM

Could you share such an avi animation for download? If resampling already is disabled that effect you've shown above is strange.

colin-anderson wrote on 2/10/2018, 2:12 PM

Do you see the same problem with the Mainconcept AVC Bluray template?

Hi Cornico, I tried using the Mainconcept MPEG-2 Blu ray template. The image separation does not occur. But to not get compression artifacts I have to set it to CBR 40Mbps which results in a file twice the size. Don't think it will fit on my disk.

Could you share such an avi animation for download? If resampling already is disabled that effect you've shown above is strange.


I would love to. The animation file however is 2.88GB in size. I'll upload it to Google drive if you're willing.

colin-anderson wrote on 2/10/2018, 3:25 PM

Hi Cornico, I tried using the Mainconcept MPEG-2 Blu ray template. The image separation does not occur. But to not get compression artifacts I have to set it to CBR 40Mbps which results in a file twice the size. Don't think it will fit on my disk.

I did not show you a Mpeg 2 template.
I showed and ask you if you already used the Mainconcept AVC encoder template that is not by default available in VPro 15 but can be enabled bij switching it on in Options/Preferences/ Internal.


Oh, sorry about that. I'll give it a shot and report back.

colin-anderson wrote on 2/11/2018, 9:32 AM

Hi again Cornico and Marco,

So as you suggested Cornico I enabled Mainconcept AVC through Internal and rendered a test and I can report that the image separation does not occur. Quality seems to be on par with a Magix AVC render also (will do a more indept verification later), and is DVDA compliant to boot! So thanks a lot for the suggestion!

colin-anderson wrote on 2/11/2018, 11:03 AM

I think that you did something wrong at rendering with the Magix AVC rendertemplate stated in your openig post, because that template is with me exactly the same as the Mainconcept template. Look

 

 

Yeah, I thought so too, but I've triple checked and ran two more tests. In any case seeing as Magix AVC is not DVDA compliant, I'll use Mainconcept. I still have one problem though:

I still end up with an extra frame with Mainconcept AVC render. Any idea why and how I can mitigate that?

Thanks

Marco. wrote on 2/11/2018, 11:46 AM

Do you have "Quantize to Frames" checked in Vegas Pro Options menu?

colin-anderson wrote on 2/11/2018, 1:48 PM

Do you have "Quantize to Frames" checked in Vegas Pro Options menu?


Yes. Should it be?

Marco. wrote on 2/11/2018, 2:09 PM

Yes, having it checked is correct in this case.

colin-anderson wrote on 2/11/2018, 2:41 PM

Ok, thanks. I rendered the audio track in a single file. I have to render the video in several sections (to avoid crashing, and because I use Smart adaptive deinterlacing on some sequences and disabled for the rest). I'll join and mux all this in tsMuxer and see what I end up with.

colin-anderson wrote on 2/14/2018, 9:59 PM

Well, I rendered the files. But tsmuxer doesn't work for stitching them together. Not to mention that I have to trim the last frame from each files. What tsmuxer outputs is unusable. I tried to find a software that can edit/stitch/trim elementary stream files (.avc) with no re-encode but none that I've found support it. I'm exasperated.

john_dennis wrote on 2/23/2018, 3:36 PM

Does your Blu-ray project have more than one title? Does it have a Menu? If so, how many titles are in the Menu?

Carl-G wrote on 2/28/2018, 12:17 AM

I showed and ask you if you already used the Mainconcept AVC encoder template that is not by default available in VPro 15 but can be enabled bij switching it on in Options/Preferences/ Internal.

How did you get to "Internal" tab in Options/Preferences, in VP15?? I don't see it in mine. I would like to have the option of adding back in Mainconcept AVC rendering in VP15.

Thanks.

Grazie wrote on 2/28/2018, 12:25 AM

How did you get to "Internal" tab in Options/Preferences, in VP15?? I don't see it in mine.

@Carl-G : https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/why-is-there-no-gpu-rendering-acceleration-yet--104234/#ca644043

 

colin-anderson wrote on 3/11/2018, 4:00 PM

Does your Blu-ray project have more than one title? Does it have a Menu? If so, how many titles are in the Menu?

I ended up muxing every parts in Video Redo and stitching them together. Now I have another probem, this time is DVD Architect. I'm getting the Buffer Underflow Error eventhough the resulting video and audio files are compliant . Since it's unrelated to this and has been documented already, I'll scoure the forum and the Internet for a solution.

Former user wrote on 3/11/2018, 5:08 PM

Are you muxing the video and audio together before bringing it into DVDA? That could cause some issues. DVDA wants separate elementary streams as sources.

colin-anderson wrote on 3/11/2018, 5:47 PM

Hi David, I'm aware of that. I demuxed with tsmuxer and replaced the audio in DVD architect with the demuxed audio file but still no joy.

rraud wrote on 3/12/2018, 10:12 AM

In DVD Arc, the audio file must have the same name as the vid and be in the same folder to be added by default. otherwise, you can drag the audio file in. The audio must be AC-3 or PCM Wave.

colin-anderson wrote on 3/13/2018, 8:37 AM

In DVD Arc, the audio file must have the same name as the vid and be in the same folder to be added by default. otherwise, you can drag the audio file in. The audio must be AC-3 or PCM Wave.


The audio and video have the same name. The audio is AC3 pro. I tried another project which is the same file and render format (unaltered Mainconcept AVC/AAC, 25Mbps blu ray template) and the same audio file format. The only difference is that it is much shorter. It rendered without problem. In fact, for kicks, I tried one with a file that hd the ac3 pro audio file already muxed in and it also completed, and without recompression. These projects were done with DVDA 6. I'll try with DVDA7 to see if I get the same error.