Master file rendering question

TimJ wrote on 12/10/2014, 4:47 PM

Hi everyone! I've got a quick question.

I recently replaced my tape cameras, and I now work with .mts files that record at 28mbps. I have always created 3 versions of my projects:

1) A master file
2) Blu Ray Files
3) DVD files

What would be the best setting for my master file? Once I mail off the final product, I have always deleted the Blu Ray and DVD files and kept the master.

I am using Vegas 12, and with the Sony AVCHD format, the highest bit rate I could get with a customized template is 25.999 mbps.

Am I just not seeing a format or a way to maintain the 28mbps in my master file? Or is Vegas 12 not able to render to that?

Thanks!

Comments

larry-peter wrote on 12/10/2014, 6:09 PM

If this is meant to be a "master" I would suggest rendering to a lossless codec. Lagarith and UT are lossless and will give you much bigger files than AVC, but much smaller than uncompressed. Compressing an already compressed source (your AVCHD fles) for a master is not a great idea - especially at anything close to the original bitrate.

If you really need smaller files, you can go to a XDCAM (up to 35 mbs) or .mxf (4:2:2 @ 50mbs) render. They hold up pretty well.

I should probably add that Lagarith and UT are not included in Vegas' codecs, but can be downloaded free.

Arthur.S wrote on 12/11/2014, 1:15 PM

I use a similar work flow of Master/BD/DVD. Purely for the ability to smart render I use MPEG-2 50P double PAL as my master. I know that'll have the purists pursing their lips, but the results are good. You need the mcplug2 folder from Vegas 10 for it to work, as here:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/Forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=890857

Warper wrote on 12/12/2014, 6:09 AM

Latest Vegas 12 can work with Sony XAVC (and XAVC-S) in .MFX container. I think it's good choice if your material fits into limitations of proposed templates for XAVC.

videoITguy wrote on 12/12/2014, 8:57 AM

I have very little concept of what the OP is doing? Why does he send a master file by mail ? , to where? Why the fascination in bitrate at a fixed number? It just does not mean anything. If you are doing a typical burn with any authoring software and creating a Blu-ray video stream for highest quality that you can master - you are indeed creating a variable bit rate file thru the encode. The variation typical is between 23 on the low side to 29 on the peak side. No value is held for more than a fraction of a second.
If you don't believe this, do a QA with appropriate app of a high-quality burn disc for a bit rate analysis.

musicvid10 wrote on 12/12/2014, 9:04 AM

After six months or so, I delete all my media and project files, saving the DVD (or bluray) on my computer. Very little need for me to get compulsive about it.

BruceUSA wrote on 12/12/2014, 10:29 AM

Lagarith is a very good codec and awesome for its small file size but it is very slow for my liking.
I like and have used Cineform/ Canopus HD/Avid DNxHD any one of these 3 codecs of choice are great and fast. I rendered all my master file to these codecs.

videoITguy wrote on 12/12/2014, 12:07 PM

BruceUSA, if you like what Lagarith does - then may I suggest to you magicyuv as an alternative - it is way faster. That is one of its best attributes.

BruceUSA wrote on 12/12/2014, 1:03 PM

videoITguy,

Thanks, I will download magicyuv to try out for my next project.

Arthur.S wrote on 12/13/2014, 11:40 AM

It'd be nice for Tim to confirm, but I don't read that he mails off the master anywhere - he mails the final product (BD/DVD) and keeps the master. Does magicyuv smart render?

TimJ wrote on 12/13/2014, 4:05 PM

Thanks for the help everyone! Arthur is right - I don't intend to mail the master file to anyone. It's for my own archives in case I need to go back to it for some reason.

astar wrote on 12/13/2014, 11:57 PM

Since the camera master is only 28mbs, I would go xdcam ex.mxf. You can render your masters clipped via a script on the timeline. XDCAM is very stable on the time to work with , much more so than AVCHD, and it smart renders. The variable bitrate will maintain the qualities of the camera master. Xdcam is mpeg2, XAVC is basically the same as xdcam only it is using MPEG4 in a high profile. You basically want a format that will be playable in a few years without having to find some codec that was marginal to begin with. XDCAM, XAVC, DNxHD, Prores are formats that big video business uses and will be supported well into the future. You can go to prores easily with FFMBC, if you really think that is the future.

I like the physical nature of DVD/BD, but then you end up with a wall of DVDs and will have to load all that stuff back off the DVDs someday. I say keep things in a format you can copy from one thing to the next. Multiple copies across a couple to several portable hard disks and or NAS. I have 2 big drawers full DV tapes that may never get transferred, because who has the time to move all that tape footage.

NickHope wrote on 12/13/2014, 11:59 PM

Arthur, MagicYUV smart renders by implication, because it's lossless. (but it won't say "no recompression required" on the screen while it's doing it)

Tim, I would use MagicYUV at its default settings. If the files are too big for you then try Sony XAVC Intra. It's lossy but pretty close to the original and the files are much smaller.