Master Pedestal and all that.

farss wrote on 9/22/2006, 4:10 AM
Finally got a loan of a big boys camera. Like all these things only a tiny B&W EVF. I'm using it to shoot a choir and musos on a stage, all the talent dressed in shiny silk and they have dark skin and shiny instruments.
This camera has just about every imaginable image tweak but seeing as how I'm only going to really see what I've shot after the event I'm more than a tad nervous about setting anything to anything other than +/-0. Any advice on this, I know what all the controls do but no time to test, all the theory is one thing, screwing up the image trying to make it better is a definate worry.

My gut feeling is to just avoid blowing the highlights out by watching the zebras, the bigger CCDs should give me enough detail in the blacks to permit more tweaking in the safety of post.

I should mention the talent have very dark skin, maybe black stretch would help?

Bob.

Comments

apit34356 wrote on 9/22/2006, 4:33 AM
Farss, if the talent is dark skin on stage, you'll probably have to push/pull the bottom end of blacks. Increasing the exp may help, but look for a filter for lowering the higher colors, ( this will help with washouts).
farss wrote on 9/22/2006, 5:19 AM
Well yes one can do this by tweaking the gamma curve in post.
But you can also do this better (to some extent) in camera using Black Stretch. I've used this several times with black suits against blackout cloth during live events. That's fine, cuase then:
a) I could see what I was doing.
b) It wasn't being recorded, if I screwed up the settings no long term harm done. When tape is rolling and it cannot be reshot life takes on a new dimension.

Bob.
vicmilt wrote on 9/22/2006, 5:38 AM
Nothing like shooting a new situation (with new gear, no less) to get that adrenaline pumping, eh?

While I can't personally add anything intelligent to pedastil setup, black stretch etc. - I can try to ground you, in your upcoming terror.

First and most important are the faces of the talent. No one is going to seriously hang you on overblown highlights, but if you can't clearly see beautiful faces, you will be hung out to dry.

To that I end, I personally would not shoot this without the use of DV Rack by Serious Magic. I don't do anything critical without it. The main reason is that it gives you a DV image - exactly what you are shooting, rather than an analog image.

So what you see is what you get - and you'll get it twice; once on tape and once direct to the hard drive. Plus you'll have a realtime monitor of your sound levels complete with red warnings of inadvertant peaks.
To top it off, you can set DV Rack to "pre-record" up to about 30 seconds or so. That way, when the chorus "just starts singing" and you haven't turned on the camera - well - you've GOT IT ANYWAY.

Ya know in the old "old days" - you'd never consider shooting a film job without a light meter. In the plain old "old days" you had a video tech peering into an oscillascope, wave form monitor and vector scope and yelling at you - "You Can't Do THAT!!"

And even in the "new days" of instant video, (DV/BetaSP/1") I still would never shoot without a high grade video monitor. But that style of shooting left me cold after a while because for some reason (whatever) - I couldn't count on the video montior to really deliver the same image as what I was getting back in the edit suite from my digital layback. So DV Rack solved all my "old school" problems. I strongly suggest it especially in a case like this where you are nervous about your final image. If it looks good in DV Rack - well, you've got it.

best,
v

farss wrote on 9/22/2006, 5:57 AM
I think from memory the video feeds out of a lot fo SP cameras weren't the full signal as recorded to take. I remember the one we had you could only get a B&W feed out of. Could be wrong, we sold it years ago.

Unfortunately this camera has no firewire, just one of those monster 26 pin things that can go to an external CCU. And I don't have a CCU or an operator!

I know it can pull stunningly good images and a pretty shallow DOF ( 1/2" CCDs), you'd like it. On the down side I've got to be very careful about focus, no autofocus. Plus I'm going to have to swap lenses (big fat Fujinon anamophic thing) and PRAY that the backfocus is still right. My, my, what have I talked myself into here!

I agree about the faces thing, although from the rehearsals these ladies tend to hide their faces, it's a devotional perfromance, in Sanskrit, 90 minutes long with no breaks.

Oh yes the sound. Well I'm double heading it, out of a desk into a HDD recorder. At least that should be OK.

rs170a wrote on 9/22/2006, 6:02 AM
Bob, what's the camera make/model?

Mike
vicmilt wrote on 9/22/2006, 6:06 AM
Wow - sounds like you've got your hands full.

I'd definitley recommend taking an assistant along if for nothing else but to help you schlep, setup, run for emergencies and hold your hand. "Relax Bob - it's gonna be ok".

But if it were me - I'd also setup a second DVCAM (take yer choice) into a laptop with DV Rack - as a safety backup. Why not? Chances are you'll throw it away but that's what "backup" is about.

The kind of issues you're concerned about really deserve a video tech, with all his crap, on the set, including 15 minutes to "chip" the camera, a decent monitor to see what you're getting, a good scope, etc. and all that other stuff. Why not cover your butt with the newest technology and at least be comforatble that "something" is coming out right?

Another thing - if you're "big boy" camera doesn't hold 120 minutes of tape, your hard drive on DV Rack will (just make sure you've got 30 gigs of free space available).

v

v
richard-courtney wrote on 9/22/2006, 6:24 AM
I remember that some of the big toys did not have alot of tape time.

"90 minutes long with no breaks".

That scares me. The EVF being black and white is always a good thing
in my mind if it is adjusted correctly.
farss wrote on 9/22/2006, 6:47 AM
Camera is DSR 570WSP.

Looking further into all the connectors, yes it does have a firewire port, they hid it pretty well. I agree about the DV Rack thing, unfortunately no space, I'll be in the middle of a hall full of people!

Yes, it takes only records DVCAM so I'm good for 184 minutes, that's one reason I borrowed this cam, none of the HDV ones would do and although I have access to two 150s I wanted 16:9.

I should be able to get an A1 as a B cam for someone else to shoot closeups of the musos as they chime in with their parts.

Funny thing is I've shot footage for serious corporate clients, never really cared much about it. This ones almost a freebie, the performers and singers are doing it for the love of it and somehow you get caught up in that. Makes all the other c***p in this game worthwhile.

On top of that I'm tryin to sort out some youngsters first movie and it's attendant audio disaster, trust me, putting audio through two passes of HDV encoding is not good if you then add compression!
rs170a wrote on 9/22/2006, 6:56 AM
Bob, I've got a good friend (excellent shooter) with that same camera and lens so I sent him an email asking for suggestions. I'll let you know what his answers are.
Do you know anything about the lighting for the concert?

Mike
farss wrote on 9/22/2006, 7:05 AM
Lighting?

Lots of it thankfully!
Background is deep red curtain, should be colorful.
Thanks for the help everyone, the good friends I've found here are the best part of Vegas.

Bob.