They are not likely to sell well because most of the Vegas users who could afford or justify such a computer would probably build it themselves.

Erik

A lot of people have been asking exactly what type of hardware will run Vegas correctly, now SCS has come out with a tested, turn-key solution and people are reacting negatively. If you look at the bundle, it's all top-of-the-line hardware with a extensive support plan. In pro circles, it's actually pretty reasonable. There is quite a bit of "value added" over and above just the hardware.

It seems to me that the problem with these systems is not the price per se, but the fact that the majority of potential buyers will be existing Vegas users who want an officially sanctioned high-spec machine that they can trust Vegas to run well on (perhaps because of inadequacies or problems with whatever hardware they are currently using). These people already own Vegas and DVDA (and quite likely Acid and Sound Forge too) and they don't want or need to pay for these again.

An option to purchase the Mastersuite hardware without having to also purchase the software again would make these a vastly more saleable proposition, I would have thought.

Mark

"An option to purchase the Mastersuite hardware without having to also purchase the software again would make these a vastly more saleable proposition... "

That's just basic common sense, which isn't too common any more... especially on the corporate and/or government levels.

So to get Vegas to work right it would like two Xeon CPUs with 8 cores in total and a pair of 15K rpm SAS drives in RAID 0.

I see something wrong with this. I think there's something very wrong in the Vegas nation. One of those systems kitted out with monitors etc is going to be pushing very close to $10K. That makes a reliable Vegas editing setup the most expensive on the market, even a decent Mac running FCS is looking like a bargain.

Yes I'm playing devil's advocate but that's the spin that the market is going to put on this. SCS need to put a fence around this marketing disaster. They need to get something speced out at a pricepoint that will not scare Joe Average away from their products.

Bob.

IF you review the specs of the base workstation, it's running a single i970 CPU - most here are already running that kind of system - I'm guessing here that the motherboard and ram are the contributing factors to a stable system.

Buy a Supermicro motherboard and replace your current one - if you already have other components it would make sense to go that route and spec accordingly based upon the workstations components.

Since I Still edit HDV and work with NeoScene at times, I'm not needing such a High End Workstation given the nature of what I shoot & Edit.

Cliff Etzel
Solo Video Journalist | Micro Documentary Film Maker
bluprojekt | SoloVJ Blog
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Desktop: OS: Win7 x64 | CPU: Q9400 | Mobo: Intel DG33TL | 8GB G.Skill Dual Channel RAM | Boot/Apps Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Audio Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Video Source: WD Black 2x750GB RAID 0 | Video Card: nVidia GeForce GT 220 1GB

Laptop: Dell Latitude D620 | C2D 2.0Ghz | 4GB G.Skill RAM | OS: Win7 x64 | Primary HD: WD 320GB 7200RPM | Video HD: WD 250GB 5400RPM

"That makes a reliable Vegas editing setup the most expensive on the market..."

You're right, Bob. Didn't someone, maybe you, point this out when this inforation was announced a few months back?

The point was for the same money one could go with one of the higher level NLEs.

Excellent points all.

A good FCP system with monitors, audio, etc is going to run you $10 to $15k. That is if you want to do 10bit HD video editing.

Dave T2

> The point was for the same money one could go with one of the higher level NLEs.

With all due respect, the point you are missing is that this is a Turnkey solution which includes hardware, software, training, and 2 years of support. Here is the software and training you get (I used MSRP because the Supermicro Professional system is MSRP $3999):

Vegas Pro 9	              599.95

Production Assistant          169.95

Sound Forge 10	              374.95

ACID Pro 7	              299.95

Sony Seminar Series DVD's      89.95

VASST Fasst Start Training     59.00

Total                       $1593.75

So back $1593.75 off of the Supermicro® Professional MSRP $3,999 and you have a $2406.20 hardware cost. This is not for the paltry 2.6Ghz i920's that most people buy for $279 but for the 3.2Ghz i960 which is $587. You are also paying for the components to be perfectly matches instead of your best guess at what works.

Here are similar parts from NewEgg.com for comparison purposes only:

SUPERMICRO MBD-C7X58-O Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard   $259.99 

Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz                      $587.99 

CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (4 x 2GB) Memory                        $304.99 

2 x WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB Hard Drives           $219.98 

PNY VCQFX580-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 580 Video Card            $189.99 

Sony 24X DVD/CD Rewritable                                $26.99 

Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Case     $199.99 

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro 700 PSU                         $139.99 

Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit                                $99.99 

Total Hardware                                         $2,029.90 

So deduct $2,029.90 from the $2406.20 and you are paying $376.30 for assembly, installation of all software, and a 2 year maintenance agreement. That’s a deal in my book.

This is NOT overpriced hardware. As I said, it is a turnkey system that is well worth the money to have Supermicro built and test it for you instead of doing it yourself and having no one to turn to when things go wrong. I would buy one myself if they gave me credit for the Sony software I already own.

~jr

You're right, the hardware price is not the issue.

Johnny, I can't speak for the rest, but I think the general sticking point (for me) is why not address those of us who have (and have had for a long time) the software, as opposed to focusing on those who may or may not buy into Vegas?

I've already got the software.
I don't need/want training.
I don't need/want 2 years of support.

What I do need is for Sony to say "Here are the system specs that we suggest you use for a system that will drive Vegas without any performance issues." In a round about way they have.

If I were moving into video editing for the first time, I can't imagine going into Vegas at that price.

> I think the general sticking point (for me) is why not address those of us who have (and have had for a long time) the software, as opposed to focusing on those who may or may not buy into Vegas?

Yup, I couldn't agree more. Like I said: "I would buy one myself if they gave me credit for the Sony software I already own." As you pointed out, at least we have some guidance by looking at the systems they offer (although a list of approved motherboards wouldn't be a bad idea either).

~jr

(edit: thanks Jay, what a difference an "n't" make. ;-) )

... (although a list of approved motherboards would be a bad idea either).

"wouldn't"... (?)

Excellent suggestion!

> "list of approved motherboards"

Sure, okay. But Vegas isn't very finicky about hardware; I've run it on dozens of laptops and desktops. There's no black magic to building a top of the line, workstation quality, solid system.

Besides, if you go with i7, then you only have one choice: an X58-based motherboard. I don't think you could find an X58 board that Vegas is unstable on---BUT YOU MIGHT find an X58 board that is unstable. Do some research and buy solid components. Stay away from "gamer" components.

Intel makes exactly one X58 board. Supermicro is good, and was probably Sony's choice because it accepts more RAM than the Intel board and it has built-in SAS support.

IMO, SAS drives are likely unnecessary for many. I'd go with SSD, which works lightning fast on Intel ICH10R equipped boards.

Sony has indicated nVidia Quadro video, so there's another no-brainer.

Again, it's paltry effort for any hardware knowledgeable person to build a solid i7 system. A solid Xeon system is almost easier to build as nearly all the hardware out there is workstation grade.

If one wanted to spend for the Mastersuite setup, it would indicate to me that they want all the software, training, and support, or aren't comfortable building a computer, don't want to, or have ideations that there is something magic about Sony's offering.

Perhaps, THIS FORUM should create a list of known good hardware? I'll start it off:

Intel DX58SO
Any Supermicro Core i7 motherboard

Realize that you may be limited by other hardware choices as well!

How about a list of Known bad hardware?

I'd bet this list would be shorter and make more sense.

"A good FCP system with monitors, audio, etc is going to run you $10 to $15k. That is if you want to do 10bit HD video editing."

Let me rephrase that for you because you've hit the nail on the head.

A good turkey solution for editing 10bit HD video editing from an Apple system integrator is going to run you $10 to $15k.

Here the task is defined and the turnkey solution spec'ed and priced. Fine, pay your money and get on with it.

This is NOT what is happening with these Vegas systems. I see an "Extreme" system at USD 6699.99, it isn't even a complete system and not a word to tell a potential Vegas user what functionality it provides over the cheaper systems. I can work out quite easily what functionality that Extreme system is targeting but there;s many who will not have a clue.
Then the question arises of Safeharbour as a systems integrator. I'm not that familiar with the US market but Safeharbour is not a name that springs to mind as having serious knowledge in the video world. Businesses such as videoguys.com do spring to mind as someone who could spec out and test a system that'll meet a users specific needs i.e. provide tool to perform a task.

Bob.