media pool question(s)

filmy wrote on 2/16/2005, 1:19 PM
I know people have talked a lot about how Vegas handles items in the Media Pool but I have a question or two. Finishing up a feature, doing the audio - lots of media - this could relate to what was "uncovered" in another thread - that all media in the project, even if it is not being used, does have an effect on memory. This is somewhat driving me batty. I am using Vegas 4 so tell me if 1> Work around for any of this and 2> has any of this been "fixed" in Vegas 5.

1> When you delete a file from a bin folder it does *not* delete it from the project. Looking under "all media" you will find it and you have to delete it again. It shouldn't work this way - I have bins for a reason...and if I remove somehting from that bin - as in delete the file - it usually means I want it gone from the project.

2> When you go out to the "All Media" section the CPU shoots up to 100% as it lists "all media". I don't notice this on smaller projects but on this one it just seems to churn around as it sorts things. This takes a while mind you - all media goes off line, Vegas goes "blank", trying to click gets the "(Not responding)" message. You either have to exit or just sit there until Vegas gets done doing whatever it is doing. I have had it spin for 3 or more minutes a few times.

3> Going back to #1 - when you delete a file from the "all media" section it takes a while - more than likely connected to #2. It has to re-orginize all that media.

4> Never had this happen before to day but adding media to a new bin closes up "Media Pool". Had it happen three times. Fixable by simply re-opening the media pool - but still annoying.

And there are other things I am sure but I took some notes and just wanted to ask about these issues.

Comments

Jimmy_W wrote on 2/16/2005, 1:28 PM
Do you empty the media pool of any unused clips before closing or saving?
JImmy
Jimmy_W wrote on 2/16/2005, 1:45 PM
Flimy, Wouldn't a clip thats deleted from the media pool and not from the project show up as media offline when you reopen the project?
filmy wrote on 2/16/2005, 1:59 PM
>>> Do you empty the media pool of any unused clips before closing or saving?<<<

Can't do that - the media pool is full of material that may be used. When editing it has all the clips that could be used - and they stay there because I pull audio to create production tracks and dialog tracks. Once that is done the media pool can be cleaned out a bit however than all the audio (Foley, hard effects, music, ambeince) gets added - and as it is still being worked on it is impossible to get rid of all unused media.

As for your other quesiton - if the media is unused it doesn't come up as offline. Logically maybe is should but I have never seen this happen unless the media is "really" offline - meaning the file on the hard drive had been moved or removed/deleted. Deleting it from a bin in the media pool just removes it from the project, or should anyway.
filmy wrote on 2/17/2005, 9:41 PM
Anyone with any info? I bumped because of all the commotion of late I figured people were avoiding the forum so maybe ya missed this.
PeterWright wrote on 2/17/2005, 10:16 PM
Not a direct answer, but just that I don't use Media Pool - I got used to working from Vegas Explorer way back before sub-clips etc were added, and have never changed.

The advantage of this is that you can keep the Media Pool lean, containing only what's on the time line, but still have immediate access to any not-yet-used media by keeping them in carefully organised folders in Explorer.

It's probably not easy to begin working a totally different way, and there may be other reasons why you prefer the Media Pool, but it does get round the "bloated media pool" syndrome.
Grazie wrote on 2/17/2005, 11:37 PM
Excellent question Filmy!

Ok .. for me: Process for Project.

I've experimented with "bloated" [ nice Peter! ] MedPools; have used explorer; have used MS Explorer too.

Now I use a combination of above PLUS creating serial Veggies - I'm a serial Veg Creator! I trim MedPool's next version of a veg - I'm ruthless. I also tend to think that MedPool when heavily overweight does create issues, Vegas appears to work better with fewer Folders under Media than lots - lots meaning more than 2!

I really wish VegExplore had thumbnails as an option - can't do much more work than is there - surely?

There has been so much chat about improving this end of V5 I can only hope that V6 has some even more intuitive Media Management solutions.

Good question ..

Grazie

. .and yes .. I've kept away from this forum for the past 10 days . . .
Liam_Vegas wrote on 2/18/2005, 12:25 AM
Regarding number 1) You can have the same media in multiple bins which is why they don't automatically remove it from the project if you do delete it from a bin.

Regarding number 2) - yep I often work in projects with 100's maybe 1000's of events... and it gets incredibly sliggish whenever you switch away from the app and then come back. I think that is related to the same deal. I know this "feature" is related to the way in which Vegas "notices" that files in the project have just been modified (so you can edit a PSD in photoshop - save it - and switch back to Vegas - and it "instantly" updates the project with the new image). It can do that because it closes the files in the media pool when you switch away from Vegas... and then opens them again as soon as you come back.

I agree it is a problem... and I sometimes have to sit and wait for a minute or more until the project comes alive again whenever I multitask (even just switching between multiple copies of Vegs does this). It becomes hell if I have one of these big projects and want to copy clips from one Veg to another.

So.. I <hope> it does this better in V6
filmy wrote on 2/18/2005, 7:35 AM
Thanks guys. Glad that it isn't just me.

Liam - it makes only a bit of sense that, because Vegas allows many bins, therefore you can have multipile instances of the same media in them. Yes, ok - logic says "sure - more than one folder than you can duplicate media as long as it isn't in the same folder" but editorially, IMO, this is out of whack. But I come from a film background where you could not easly duplicate shots while editing. Once video came into play it became easy to overlap frames or use the same media by mistake...there is software that exists, in addition to match back sofware, that will tell you these sort of things. On the video side though - one doesn't have to be that anal about using the same media more than one time. But still, with the Vegas media pool screwy as is, it is disheartining to find more than one instance of the same piece of media in the project somewhere. More so if it is unused media.
taliesin wrote on 2/18/2005, 8:15 AM
Allow me to add something which may - or may not - be related to same base.

A friend of mine - using Vegas 5 on an XP system with somehat around 2.5 GHz CPU und 1 GB of Ram - ran into a deep problem with his current project.

He must use about 4000 Events in a single timeline. There are circumstances which really forces him to have all his stuff in the timeline first, before go on managing it otherway. The total time of that timeline now is about 14 hours.

He can import the 4000 clips (DV-AVI) and place them in the timeline with no problem. But when he saves the project and then try to reopen it - it fails. Vegas does not open this project because of memory lack (at least this is what Vegas says).

I don't have 4000 single clips at the moment to try to reproduce it but I tested what happens if I use 13 hours of DV AVI in the timeline (but it's only 14 files, not 4000). This works fine without glitches (only buildung the peak files takes its time, but that's the way it is anyway).

Now I wonder is there really an issue with loading so much DV-AVI files? I know I worked with about 1000 files with no problems. But never used 4000 files.

Anybody ever worked with about 4000 DV AVI files in the timeline and had success to reopen such a project then? If yes - what was your PC specs (CPU and Ram)?

Marco
Liam_Vegas wrote on 2/18/2005, 10:10 AM
Just one idea on why it makes sense to have the same clips/media in multiple bins.

Say you have one clip (AVI file) out of which you will extract several events. For your workflow you might like to place the same media into several bins.

Hence... there is a reason why you could legitimately want it in multiple bins.

I think a simple fix to the "I really do want to remove the clip from the project" is for an additional menu option (in the right-click menu) to allow you to "dlete and remove from project"/
scdragracing wrote on 2/18/2005, 10:43 AM
4000 events in the timeline??? you must be kidding! that is certainly the biggest project i've ever heard of, lol... i think that he'd be wise to create multiple vegs instead.
taliesin wrote on 2/18/2005, 11:01 AM
Maybe even wiser to sort out before dragging the clips into the timeline. But that's the way he has to go. He needs all the clips in the timeline of one project first.

Marco