Microphone (Plugin Power) compatibility?

kriz100 wrote on 6/15/2005, 2:07 AM

here i have a question relate to the hardware of my video-camcorder, a sony dcr-trv510
http://www.dvformat.com/htm/news/1999/features_sony_digital8-dcrtrv510.htm
and the use of my microphone, a sennheiser.
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm.nsf/root/products_microphones_classic_00762#
the camera says it needs some plugin-power, and if i am right that does mean i can't use the mic with the camera. at least no with an power supply, is there anything like that available?
i really would much appreciate it, because the audio will be so much better than it comes from the internal mic.
i already know of this mic: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm.nsf/root/products_microphones_special_03171
but since this is a fixed mic it isn't really an good option for me.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/15/2005, 5:25 AM

This mic won't work with your cam without a separate preamp like the Beachtek or similar. Your cam doesn't have enough built in power, and the mic doesn't have a battery enclosure.
There are LOTS of mics that can be put on your camera, the 441 isn't really a good mic for video anyway. Great mic though! It's more a drum and thick sound mic.
What sorts of places are you trying to record in?

wm_b wrote on 6/15/2005, 5:50 AM

The 441 is sennheisers' successful attempt at condensor mic sound with a hum cancelling dynamic cartrige. A 441 does not need phantom power. The only bad thing about a 441 is the need for lots of gain. Most likely it will not be the right kind of mic for use as a video mic unless it's okay to actually see the mic on-screen. I believe it has a hyper-cardioid pattern and would sound too "roomy" for video use.

Spot is correct about it being a great mic. Several hit songs were tracked with this mic. Especially good for female vocals. It also works great with a very loud voice.

What is the exact application?

William.

kriz100 wrote on 6/15/2005, 7:38 AM

What do you mean with "too roomy"? I often see the 441 in use on TV like on the news, reportage, news gatherings. Reporters are using it all the time. I'm doing mostly reports and interviews. It is ok if the mic will appear on-screen, I'll pull over the mic a "poemple" anyway. (It's german, means some sort of windbreak with a logo on it). Yes, the 441 dosen't need any phantom power.

The Beachtek DXA-2 - XLR-Adapter is 149,-Euros
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31341&item=5780461280&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The Sennheiser Mic MKE 300 will cost 149,- Euros at a store in Germany.

I see there is no prices diffrence, but the MKE 300 as i said before is an static/fixed mic and isn't really flexible. However I have no experience with it, can't say anything about it.

Maybe some sort of compromise would be to get the MKE300, since it got the required external-power, and try to plug the 441 in between when I need it, instead of the use of the MKE300. Maybe there is a adapter which can handle it?

Any other suggestions?

wm_b wrote on 6/15/2005, 12:15 PM

By "roomy" I mean that background noises will become much louder under compression. However, as a close mic (within a 12 in or so) or handheld by an interviewer it wiil perform well. The mic still needs a fair amount of gain. The limitation being that as gain increases so does noise. In order to get a good signal level the mic pre might be near its' own clip range.

Any News gathering mic would be a better choice for handheld interviews.

Please bear in mind that I am coming at this from a recording POV and not video production. I use a 441 almost daily on many sources, but mostly as a vocal mic. My only complaint is the pickup pattern makes it not a good choice for certain instances. I prefer sennheiser 409's for a dynamic recording mic but that would not be good for interviews.

Good Luck, Wm.

kriz100 wrote on 6/15/2005, 11:22 PM

"Any News gathering mic would be a better choice for handheld interviews"

Maybe with a battery include, do you have a suggestion for me, which will be good for my preferences?

20 years ago, the 441 was in use by the majority, even on press conferences. See the picture.
http://img295.echo.cx/img295/4608/mics5gj.jpg

farss wrote on 6/16/2005, 2:25 AM

I've got pretty much the same camera as you. Biggest problem you face is the audio section of the camera is far from ideal, I don't think you can turn the AGC off so no matter what you do externally to the camera you've always got that limitation.
I've used the camera with a Beachtek converter to get balanced inputs and to supply phantom power to a condenser mic. It all worked out OK, electric piano going into one input switched to line level and studio condensor mic into the other but the noise floor was a lot higher than I would have liked.
But in an interview situation generally there's so much real noise it's probably not going to be an issue. Using a dynamic mic will avoid the need for phantom power, one less gadget to go wrong and one less battery to go flat. Also dynamics are generally more rugged. I'd look around for a dynamic mic with a cardiod pickup pattern that had a fairly high output and feed that to the camera through a basic balanced to unbalanced adaptor.
If you had the budget I'd be looking for a camera that's better equiped to handle external mics. For once I'd not recommend the PD150/170, I'd tend towards the Panny cameras such as the DVX100 or the DVC30, big plus for them is the XLRs are down low on the body and their audio sections are better than the Sonys.
Bob.

kriz100 wrote on 6/16/2005, 3:20 AM

Thanks, I will thinking about getting one of the Panasonic cameras from their proline - or a sony-pro like this one: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15543&item=5729039490&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

But what bothers me a little is, the pro-cameras sony or panasonic seems to be really huge and heavy. They are not that much compact as the consumer cameras are.

farss wrote on 6/16/2005, 3:37 AM

That's the nice thing about the Panasonic DVC30, you can take the audio bridge off it to give you a fairly compact camera. Small isn't always such a good thing either, once they get too light there's less stability so camera shake is much harder to control. But it really depends on what you're using the camera for, there's no one camera that suits everything. You've also got to factor in how clients view you, turning up with a small camera just doesn't cut it with many clients.
Bob.

kriz100 wrote on 6/16/2005, 10:15 AM

"You've also got to factor in how clients view you, turning up with a small camera just doesn't cut it with many clients."
Really? Then I might look for some huge, analog camera... for just a few bucks.

Serious, the Panasonic DVC30 looks good by the audio/video specifications, and got a great price. 750,00 Euros seems to be well worth it. I'll trying to find the opportunity to check this camera out before I buy, because i don't like cameras you carry on your shoulder. But I think these cameras are history anyway.

Also, another Idea for the use of my TRV510, is to track down the audio on a minidisc, and mixing it together with the video.