Wow Bob, that's a nice deck. But I guess it's a bit pricey, at about $2200. That makes a $1000 DR-60 seem a bit more like a good option, lol. Of course that doesn't solve the media problem if you want to have a tape back-up of your footage. But it doesn't look like a person can touch a deck for under $1000, unless you find a steal on Craigslist somewhere. I seriously doubt you'd find a steal on ebay anymore.

Thanks for the post.

TB

if all you need is a rewinder, find a use mini-DV camera cheap. That will rewind the tape & possibly save you some $$$.

I'd love a VCR but just due to the price I won't be getting one any time soon. :(

gotta say though, these things I've personally used, and they ran ~5 or 6 YEARS of DAILY use before they even needed to be cleaned. Had ~5 of then @ the tv station I worked at and ran them until dead. I'm talking ~3 hours of solid playing time (not counting recording/cueing/etc) per deck a day. and they're built like a small tank!

bad part is they're DVCPro, (can't record on DV/MiniDV tapes), but besides that, they're awesome.

EDIT: MR51U is ~1700 @ b&h.

Yes, I thought of the el-cheapo used mini DV camera approach as well. I was hoping to find a 'secret weapon' type of rewinder that someone knew about--but I guess that might be the used mini DV camera! I will look around for one, on ebay and such.

About that DVCPro deck... I saw a mini DV adapter for DVCPro machines on the B&H website. I forget the cost, but it wasn't terribly bad as I recall. But given the cost of that deck, I bet a person could stay in M15's for about 20 years!

Thanks.

TB

Unless you are rewinding tapes constantly, I'd suggest just using the camera mechanism. It puts very little wear and tear on the camera, as the tape does not wrap around the drum during rewind.

Back when I used Pinnacle's Studio7 (~2001), I used the proxy feature of that slick little editor to do my editing on an 8GB drive (this was when a 30GB drive was BIG and expensive). After you finished the project, you told Studio7 to build the DV master. It did so by automatically shuttling the camcorder tape back and forth, pulling bits and pieces of the raw DV footage as it assembled the result. You would not believe the hundreds of start/stop/rewind/fastforward operations my camera did to build the final project. After multiple projects, the camera still ran just fine. I still have it today, seven years later.

My point is that these camcorder decks are built stoutly. I personally wouldn't worry about additional wear caused by rewinding tapes.

I would recommend using a cheaper camera as well. After getting my Sony Z1 and seeing how expensive the deck for it was (it was almost the same price as the camera) I figured it was way cheaper to just buy a Sony A1 camera and use that to capture and rewind and have a 2nd camera to boot. So that's what I do. (and the A1 doubles as a great "vacation cam" 'cuz it's so small.)

~jr

About that DVCPro deck... I saw a mini DV adapter for DVCPro machines on the B&H website. I forget the cost, but it wasn't terribly bad as I recall

when I used those machines (it's ~5 years ago now) the issue with the mini-DV converter was said to wear down the deck faster. Was it true? I don't know, we only ever used maybe 1 or 2 mini DV's in the 4 years I was there, and that was on the decks for NLE use & we would always dub from mini-DV to DVCPro right away.

I am not sure if this will help but sony has this Video Walkman
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/516841-REG/Sony_GVHD700_GV_HD700_HDV_Video_Walkman.html#specifications

I have always wondered about this device

PaulB

That little video walkman looks like a nice rig--and the price isn't too terribly bad. The nice thing is that you can take it with you on a shoot and power it with the same batteries you are using for the camera. And the iLink interface would allow capturing the footage on a PC, without using the playback feature of the deck.

I understand the point someone made about how stoutly the carriages on these cameras are built. But the fact is that the cost to repair an FX1's carriage is likely to be much higher than just buying a $175-200 SD camera with mini DV media capabilities. Still, I can see how the GV-HD700 would come in really handy on a shoot. Very neat little unit.

I think I'll just buy an inexpensive mini DV camera for now--it's still likely to be cheaper than buying these $30 rewinders that start eating tape. Then after I buy a shotgun mic, fluid head tripod and several other things I apparently cannot live without...I'll look for a HD700, or a deck like Bob mentioned. A person might find one cheap enough, given enough time.

Thanks for the answers folks.

TB

I have a Maxwell miniDV rewinder and have used on a very regular basis for 4 years. It has never once eaten a tape. Very affordable.

Chad

Hmmm...I don't see that the Maxwell mini DV rewinders are even made any longer. How long ago did you get it; or do you know if it's still available?

The Lenmar units are supposed to be OK. And the Sony tapes I have been buying are about $3 apiece on the internet. So really, if I get 5-10 uses (or a few more) out of each tape and it gets chewed, I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world.

TB

EDIT: OK, you were likely talking about a Maxell mini DV tape rewinder. Gotcha... I found a couple references to that, but you guessed it--the users say it eats, tapes! LOL. Do you think you could maybe post a link of the one you use Chad? I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.

Is http://www.etronics.com/p-58004-maxell-mdvrw1-maxell-mdvrw1-mini-dv-tape-rewinder.aspx?dp=F2C21222E6325253C38363F3A3570373637303132303&svbname=403&bname=GoogleBasethis[/link] the one you use, by chance?

Forgive me for asking... I don't know too much about these rewinders... but how is it possible for them to eat tape???

When a tape is in playback within a cam it is wound around the head as well as a few capstans..... (which is when a tape stands the chance of getting eaten) But when it is being rewound the tape has already been retracted back into its casing and is not touching anything other than the mini reels they're on inside the case (and of course the 2 corner pulleys).

I can see maybe if the spring tension is too tight on the clutch for the rewind shaft, which would cause tape to be stretched or even broken when it hits the end.... but I can't for the life of me see the tape getting eaten.

Top of my head I'd say that tape is extremely delicate in several ways. Any misalignment of the spindles during rewind could trash the tape with crinkles. I could also see how a brute-force rewind could easily stretch or snap the tape. By contrast, the drives in camcorders are quite refined in how they handle tape. I know my Sony machines will start a wind very slowly, then accelerate, then slow down in multiple steps before reaching the end. I doubt very much the cheapo rewinders have the same finesse.

Yea, I have my doubts about the mechanisms in all of these little $20 rewinders. I simply cannot see how the tape isn't going to get mangled in the mechanism at some point. How good could the mechanism be for that kind of money?

So I was thinking I would just sell my Sony SR45 on ebay (as we never use it anymore), and just buy a Sony mini DV SD unit that uses the same battery if at all possible. Then we'd have a spare camera like we do now, and we would have a lot better tape carriage system than one of these little rewinders offers. No matter which one you look at, the reviews always say the same thing...

"It ate my tape."

It's just not worth taking the chance--not so much for the price of a tape, but simply to minimize the risk of losing the footage you just shot. So I'll head over to camcorderinfor.com and check out some of the older SD cameras, maybe from a year or so ago. I am not really going to use it to record, so I am not going to spend the bucks on a *third* HD unit.

TB

I'm still using my Sony VX-1000 which I bought in 1995 (I know, I know) and I've used it to shoot video and as a playback deck the whole time.

Transports have a mechanism to maintain constant tape tension. Should also mention that the tape is only partially unwound from the heads when shuttling, the VCR still needs to be able to read the TC off the tape.

I had a few tapes eaten by my DSR-11. During rewind the tape would loose tension at the speed change point. The tape would get wrapped around the guides and stretch or snap. The base material used today is pretty robust, the only problem is it'll stretch a lot before it snaps and stretched tape is unreadable. Repairing a MiniDV tape is no fun, that I can vouch for.

I never had a problem with the Sony or Panasonic tapes. Those EP tapes from TDK etc were what caused the problems. If you ever need more than a 62 minute tape Sony make a 83 min 'HDV' MiniDV tape that's very solid and expensive.

The little 700 clamshell is quite nice, we have two that get used a lot by the film guys recording the feed from their video taps. It's also got a memory stick reader and yes, it's nice it'll run off the same batteries. We've also got the original M10s but they're no longer in production. Only thing is both the 700 and the M10 use the same transport as the FX1, Z1 etc. It's perfectly servicable but if you do a lot of capturing for paying jobs stepping up to the M15 or M25 is money well spent. I should also admit that over 50% of my work still comes off DVCAM which changes my view a bit.

Bob.

I really like the looks of that little HD700 Bob. I can think of several good reasons to do that instead of a small SD camera using mini DV media. I may just use the FX1 for a couple months, sell the SR45 on ebay and put the money towards one of those units. What a neat little deal... Not terribly cheap, but neat nonetheless.

I see that Sony used to have another unit, but I lost the link. It isn't made any longer...I do know that. Obviously the 700 must have replaced it. I saw one on ebay a while back, but I didn't know what the heck I was looking at.

TB

I have a Kinyo VHS rewinder that works well and two Sima DV tape rewinders that I hardly use. I think they also go by the Lenmar name as well. The problem with them is that they jerk the tape at the end so I stopped using them.

Has anyone actually had a problem with their camera transport from overuse? I use either the camera to rewind or more often my DV deck. Is this actually a concern based upon statistics or just fear?

John

Great question. But it seems like most experienced videographers I talk to tell me that they use something other than their camera to rewind and playback video for capture purposes. So when in Rome...

I guess I just thought it made sense--I always used a VHS rewinder, because I had motors go bad in more than one unit over the years. But I guess I don't have any sort of objective data though. There must be some professional video people here that can answer that question...

TB

Avoid cheap rewinders.