I just call 'em like I hear 'em. You boys want some ear training classes I'm holding registration for the winter classes in a couple weeks.

:-)

I am probably guilty of using the terminology wrong... But they DO cancel eachother out to a substantial degree.

If you listen to the left or right channel only - the guitar is loud. Listen to the channels combined - the guitars are very low.

Listen to these excerpts:

First stereo, then mono: http://w1.510.telia.com/~u51013961/stereo_and_mono.mp3
Left channel, then mono: http://w1.510.telia.com/~u51013961/left_and_mono.mp3
Right channel, then mono: http://w1.510.telia.com/~u51013961/right_and_mono.mp3

They thin out more than they oughtta with just a phaser. If thats how youre ears work rednroll I'd be scared to hear just how thin you make an ALBUM

Ok, that's what I kind of figured and why I was pushing for a definition of phase cancellatin from you. I was hoping to maybe learn something new that I may not be aware of. I don't need to listen to the Mono files you've uploaded. What you are hearing is "Masking". The two guitars are fighting for their position in the frequency spectrum. The fact that they are panned left and right gives them seperation, but when you combine them into mono then you loose that L/R seperation. Masking problems can be overcome by eqing the guitars differently from each other so they each occupy their own space of frequencies in the mix.

Keep trying though, there may be a day when I put my tail between my legs and say, "ok...I'm wrong".

"They thin out more than they oughtta with just a phaser."

Wow, there you go again with the technical explanations Pipe. You're way over my head with this one, I'll never be able to mix as good as you with your understanding of audio.

Can you describe how much they "oughtta" cancel? I didn't know there was a pre-determined level of cancelling with a phazer effect. Well I'll just send my mixes to you, you obviously sound like you know what you're talking about.

I mean it oughtta sound like a phaser. a definite rhthym to it

this doesnt it sounds like phase cancellation

Jues,

Sorry I'm late for the party. =) This is going to be quick because I'm late for class. I gave your song a listen, so here are some of my thoughts. Bare in mind that I'm not an audio professional, but I am a vocalist and a composer that enjoys alternative rock styles, so here we go:

Vocal:

I'll agree with Joe and Brian that the vocal is a bit, well, flat. Intonation-wise, I think he's fine, but the way it's mixed leaves some to be desired. When I played with it in Sound Forge, I found a gentle presence boost helped bring it out some. Now from a technique standpoint, you might suggest that he sing on his breath. His voice gives me the impression that he's huffing out the notes for the gritty style that normally is used in this genre, but he still needs to gas up with breath low, in his stomach. It sounds like he's breathing to his chest, resulting in the lackluster sound people have noted. Intensity comes from intensity and focus of breath, not squeezing out the apoggio to make it 'sound' intense.

Also, have you considered using AutoTune 3 to give the vocal a bit of that vocodish sound (ala Sarina Paris or Cher)? If used with real subtlty, it'd fit very nicely with the synth. I can refer you to a tutorial for that effect if needbe.

Overall mix:

Again, as others noted, the mix has phase issues. I looked at it on my stereo spectragram, it's all over the place. The funny thing is, it sounds quite the opposite. It feels muted, and narrow, instead of wide and big. This can be confirmed by simply inverting one of the channels and mixing the two together: bam, guitar suddenly comes out while the rest of the mix disappears. Also, I would try sweetening the high end a bit with either some EQ or excitation. Again, when I experimented with that, the overall sound just had more integrity to it.

A group you NEED to listen to is Machinae Supremacy. Click here to get to their site. Take a special listen to "March of the Undead". It's very similar to the song you've mixed here. Notice how the guitars fill the stereo space. It's big and loud, not hallow. Their other stuff is very similar. While their vocal techniques often leave a lot to be desired, they're up front and clear. They get your attention. Also, most (most, not all) of their vocal harmonies just plain rock. While this isn't precisely what your song is trying to accomplish, I believe it's a terrific starting point for reference.

Take care,
Nick