MMC and MTC with vegas?

Dide wrote on 1/26/2004, 1:42 AM

Does Vegas handle MMC or is this always standard in MTC?
I want to use the transport functions from my Tascam TM-D8000.
If I set the TM-D8000 on MMC only Than Vegas don't react on it!
Vegas only react on MTC, wich is generated from the TM-D8000.
The TM-D8000 can handle more types of transport protocols than MMC only.
I don't want to use the TM-D8000 as MTC generator because of the start delay that Vegas has with this, this is minimal 1 sec.
And If I do this I got to many timecode dropouts and i can't fix this with a freeweel setting.
Is it posible to make Vegas the master and put the generated timecode to the TM-D8000 (thru midi) wich will be displayed on the 7 seg. TC display?
Than I only have to use the MMC protocol from the Console.
Does anybody has experiance with this?

Dide

Comments

Rednroll wrote on 1/26/2004, 9:16 AM

'Is it posible to make Vegas the master and put the generated timecode to the TM-D8000 (thru midi) wich will be displayed on the 7 seg. TC display?"

Yes, Vegas will generate MTC and be the master. You just need to assign a midi output port in the preferences menu. Then there is a "generate MTC", enable/disable button or menu item. You will also need to change the time format to tell Vegas, what kind of timecode you want to generate.

I believe Vegas does not support MMC messages. It does support third party transport devices, which are based off of a multimedia keyboard controler. Like the JL cooper stuff, and contour shuttle pro.

Dide wrote on 1/26/2004, 4:48 PM

Thanks Rednroll.

I have a Contour but I want use the transport functions from the console.
What I can do is use a Miditranslator like the one from Bome and make keystrokes from the MMC data. (http://www.bome.com/midi/translator/)
What I dont like is that the start/stop function is the same key(space), this is difficult to split with the Bome's miditranslator or on another way.(I think)
But isn't it possible to do this with the scripting from Vegas itself and also the translation from incoming midi data to keystrokes?

I hope Sony with add the MMC protocol/fuction very soon.

Dide

Rednroll wrote on 1/26/2004, 5:26 PM

I've complained about this before, but just so you know, the space bar is Play/Stop and the Enter Key is Pause. You can Change the space bar to be Play/Pause in the preferences. The thing that doesn't make sense to me, is if you make the space bar Play/Pause, then shouldn't you make the enter key "stop"?. They leave the enter key as "pause", so now you have 2 pause buttons, and no stop button, if you choose this preference. Seems like common sense to me?

Dide wrote on 1/27/2004, 12:16 PM

Let's hope they will put this and more controller support in version 5.
If they want to compete with al the other pro daw's than they can't ignore this kind of options.
I will put a question in the script forum about the MMC/keystroke thing and about the split with the play-stop function.

THX Dide

Dide wrote on 1/27/2004, 3:40 PM

It's not possible to do this with scripting. :-(
I have to wait on Sony's new version 5 (I think).

Dide

MJhig wrote on 1/27/2004, 3:56 PM

If Vegas expects to compete with the other major players they will have to support MIDI. It's true that many want control surface support but you must admit many more expect MIDI support from a true DAW app..

How many major player audio only multi-track recorders are there?

MJ

Rednroll wrote on 1/27/2004, 5:11 PM

Contrary to that though, is that Acid already supports Midi. Protool's midi sucks. Sonar, Cubase, and Logic Audio have pretty good midi, but neither compare to Vegas on the audio side. Given that Acid already supports midi, where I think is a better place for it, because Acid does with Audio, what a sequencer does with midi. So with all that, I would rather just have Vegas be able to either open an Acid project, have rewire support between Acid and Vegas, or .OMF import/export in Acid and Vegas. You can already generate a midi beat clock from Vegas and have Acid slave to it, so eccentially you have midi in Vegas, and in my opionion is a better option, then adding a dumbed down midi sequencer, because you have your choice of midi sequencers to work with.

Ben wrote on 1/27/2004, 5:29 PM

Even basic midi playback in Vegas would be a good start.

Ben

Dide wrote on 1/28/2004, 1:48 AM

I agree with you Rednroll.
If you want to create music than Acid is the tool not Vegas.
Deticated Pro multitrack systems don't support extensive midi functions like a normal sequenser. (Protools, Soundscape, Sadie, Radar or Pyramix)
But I also agree with Ben that a simple midi playback/record in Vegas like something Protools has very usefull is.
If you want to automate hardware with midi like a FX or other stuff than you need the midi support!
Hopefully Sony will listen to this kind of requests and put it in a new version.

Dide

MJhig wrote on 1/28/2004, 2:48 PM

Red I completely understand your point of view. Once I have my nest built I don't want anyone messing it up myself.

From a marketing standpoint, let me make this point;

I own Sonar and Acid. I sync them both to handle my MIDI to Vegas along with my external gear. I'm well aware of how to sync, I can work that way myself although I'd rather not.

I answer the majority of posts on a Sonar based forum and if you poll that community I'd be very surprised if the vast majority didn't say they respect my opinion.

That said, over the last few years it's virtually impossible to get any of them to consider Vegas as even a secondary multi-track app. and believe me I've tried. Once I have to tell them there is no MIDI support, no matter how much I rave about the audio/video and GUI advantages of Vegas, it's all over. They even complement on the audio and video examples I've posted and the vast majority already have one version of Sound Forge or another which as you know includes Vegas LE, they will not even install it to check it out. Some of that probably has to do with musicians/engineers not wanting to add software to their systems that are performing well now and some probably because of not wanting to re-learn what they can already accomplish now with their app. of choice, some is because they don't want to spend additional hundreds for another app. just for audio only advantages.

The fact is, with no MIDI support, Vegas will not compete with other major players in the audio recording/sequencing/music creation venue.

Another fact is, now Sonar 3 has copied much of Vegas' audio tools although still far less intuitive to use, bringing it up closer to the level that Vegas once dominated.

MJ

Rednroll wrote on 1/28/2004, 6:34 PM

MJ,
I do totally agree with you on that aspect. I also understand, I am more of a power user than most when it comes to understanding midi, MTC, Smpte, and audio, and how to make them all work together. Even trying to explain, how to sync different applications, and external sequencers, and hardware gear to musician types, I can see their eyes spin from confusion after the first sentence. I've learned this stuff when I first started to be an audio engineer about 10 years ago, and now it's just second nature to me. I wish if anything, that Sony would make a midi only sequencer app that would have the ability to show up as a dockable window within Vegas. Either I could use it as a stand alone sequencer or, I could use it like a VSTi right within Vegas, where they both run together. I could even use the same program within Acid the same way. After all, Vegas and Acid, notice when you have Sound Forge installed, and you can use that from within Vegas and Acid. So what's wrong with having a similar feature with a midi sequencer program? Also, if they do that, I could even get rid of opcode's Studio Vision for PC, which I have installed on a seperate PC, syncing with Acid and Vegas, via Midi Beat Clock, or Smpte.

Right now, I don't know of any sequencer program, which is MIDI ONLY. They all have audio features in them. That's one of the reasons I still use Studio Vision for PC, It's small quick and not bloated with a bunch of dumbed down audio features and as far as Midi features, it still does everything I need it too with a great UI. I think if you make a MIDI only program, which has a great UI, and can be used with other Audio programs via Beat Clock and also integrate seamlessly into your own audio programs, then you have a wider marketability for your app and both sides of this discussion are happy.

The other part of this is that I've come to the realization of, is that Vegas is no longer trying to compete with other DAW software. It is a Video Editor competing with the likes of Adobe Premiere and kicking everyone's ass on the combination of Video and Audio features put into 1 app. You can look at the audio only users, that use Vegas, and the Video users, by comparing the 2 seperate forums. If I post a message in the Video forum, it will stay there for 1 day in the top 10 posts if I'm lucky, before it get's over-run by other users posting Video posts. I can do the same thing in the audio forum, and my message will stay in the top 10 for the next week or two. Why? I would have to say, there's a wealth more of video users, using Vegas now.