MobilePre - SM58 Question

AAvideo wrote on 7/1/2004, 6:54 PM
HI I noticed way back you guys were talking about the mobilepre (M-audio), etc. I just purchased one on recommendation from B&H. I would like to record voiceovers.

The problem I have is that you have to practically put your face on the microphone, and have all of the levels turned up both on the hardware, and in the mobilepre control panel. That just doesn't seem normal to me. I have the phantom power switch turned on. if you are say 6 inches from the mic, the green signal light doesn't even turn on (unless you scream at the top of your lungs). With everything turned up, and being right up on the mic, it sounds good. But if you back off more than 2 inches, you can't even hear it. What gives? Certainly this isn't how its supposed to work. Am I doing something wrong? Perhaps I have defective hardware???

This is so frustrating because the reason I went with this is that I have a DELL XPS, which has a terrible hum with lots of snap/crackle/pop when the mic is in use. I bought this stuff, because B&H said that it would fix my problems. Don't get me wrong, it does sound a lot better, but I also shouldn't have to put my mouth on the mic to get sound.

HELP!!!

Comments

PipelineAudio wrote on 7/1/2004, 8:50 PM
for one thing you dont need phantom power for an SM 58, for another the SM58 is designed specifically for use RIGHT UP on top of it.

An omni pattern mic with a whole lot less proximity effect might be cool for you , but a more typical speech type mic like an RE-20 might be more the ticket ( look at the equally cool but WAY cheaper PL-20 to show up used)
AAvideo wrote on 7/1/2004, 9:33 PM
In the directions for the SM58 it says that for normal voice you should speak .6m (2ft) away for natural sound and reduced base. If I was 2ft. away, I couldn't even be heard.

Maybe the manual is only a suggestion depending on the preamp?
PipelineAudio wrote on 7/1/2004, 10:22 PM
well, think of it this way. The SM58 is the DEFACTO live mic for vocals.

Live you need a mic that you can REALLY be on top of, you cant risk leakage from monitors, amps, drums, whatever. Im sure it would sound more natural two feet away, but for a mic that can handle the SPL of a snare drum no problem, I dont think its version of natural is what you want to hear for talking

which meters are you reading? I cant imagine the mic pre wouldnt have enough gain to distort any mic 10 feet away
AAvideo wrote on 7/2/2004, 10:40 AM
There are 2 lights on the front of the unit. Signal and Clip. The clip never goes on (a good thing), but in order for the signal to even register (even w/the gain all the way up) you have to be right up on it. Is that the way its supposed to work? I agree with what you're saying in terms of live vocals too. It makes sense that you're supposed to be close to it....although I don't know about your mouth actually touching it. What do you think?
drbam wrote on 7/2/2004, 10:49 AM
Its possible that you may have a defective Mobile Pre. Also check all of your connections and try a different mic cable. There's a lot areas where problems can occur. Bottom line is that if everything is working correctly, you should be able to talk normally into the 58 at about 4 inches and be able to clip the input if its turned all the way up.

drbam
AAvideo wrote on 7/2/2004, 11:03 AM
I just spoke to B&H....they mentioned something about a mic input as opposed to a line input setting somewhere. However, I don't think that is the problem.
AAvideo wrote on 7/2/2004, 11:08 AM
That is what I would think. The problem, is that I just bought all of this stuff, and don't have another cable, etc. Do you think I should just ship it all back? I called M-Audio tech support, and after 15 minutes on hold, I hung up (cell phone battery was going).

drbam wrote on 7/2/2004, 12:24 PM
I'm assuming you are using an XLR cable (balanced) with the 58? This would *only* allow you to use the correct input (mic) on the mobile pre and is the *only* way you should connect it. Do not use an unbalanced cable (XLR>1/4in phone jack) as you will have impedence mismatch.

drbam
Geoff_Wood wrote on 7/3/2004, 1:55 AM
AAVideo, I really think you need to investigate the line level v. mic level thing.

geoff
AAvideo wrote on 7/3/2004, 6:24 AM
Guys,

I called over my neighbor, who is an amateur musician (and knows a heck of a lot more than I do when it comes to this more complicated audio equipment). He thinks that with the hardware level all the way up, and the software level at about 6 (half) we were able to get a decent "level". He suggests that the calibration of the "signal" light could be off perhaps.

What do you guys thinK
drbam wrote on 7/3/2004, 7:56 AM
Try it the other way around: increase the software level and decrease the hardware level – you should get less noise. In terms of the recorded level, how does it sound to you and what do the recorded files look like, ie; where are the loudest peaks reading and what is the average level? If the loudest peaks are around the -6 to -3 db then you are where you should be. And yes, with any budget gear, things like meters (calibration lights) could easily be inaccurate.

drbam
MrPhil wrote on 7/5/2004, 7:26 AM
As drbam said:
check where you connect the mic.
The mic inputs are at the back, XLR, not at the front where you have line/instrument level.

http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/mobilepre_usb.jpg
AAvideo wrote on 7/5/2004, 7:55 PM
absolutely. I have the mic in the back (XLR). I wrote M-Audio an email. Apparently, they agree with some other opinions here, that the SM58 is not an extremely sensitive mic, and that it seems that the mobilepre is working fine.
whitet wrote on 7/6/2004, 1:32 AM
i've been using the mobilepre for over a year now for vocals (samson c01 condensor) and guitar. im able to stand within inches (gain about half way) or within feet (gain 3 quarters) and get a strong signal. i'm sure you've checked this already, but there are two volume interfaces for the MobilePre in the systray. make sure that the levels in both are raised up enough.
MrPhil wrote on 7/6/2004, 6:27 AM
It's not THAT un-sensitive either, although it's not suitable for studio vocal work.
What are your settings on the software mixer?
drbam wrote on 7/6/2004, 6:51 AM
>>It's not THAT un-sensitive either, although it's not suitable for studio vocal work<<

Yes, no dynamic mic will be as sensitive as a condenser. However the 58 *is* suitable for all kinds of studio work and is used often for loud rock vocals, especially when recording "live" in a studio (all musicians playing together instead of overdubbing). It certainly would not be my first choice for voice over, but it may suit your needs fine. Again, check your settings in the maudio software. It sounds like the maudio tech is doing what they do best: blame the problem on some other vendor. This is the primary reason why I don't own ANY maudio gear. They are notorious for this kind of crap and have been exceedingly unfriendly and uncooperative to Sonic Foundry in the past (although I get the impression this is now changing – we'll see).

drbam
PeterVred wrote on 7/6/2004, 11:00 AM
I have run into that same problem you have AA, Except that I was using an EV RE-20. I am using a Mackie 24-4 into an Echo Layla.

My levels could not be seen in vegas without normalizing or "shift/up arrowing" the wav file. I had the gain on the mixer at 4:30...almost full, and the distortion was audible, yet I could still get nothing but minimal levels into vegas. The situation sucked.

I sent the mic in to EV and had them look it over, they said it tested out fine and sent it back, no charge.

Still the level was bad. So I bought a Presonus Blue Tube mic preamp. I can now get good usable levels in vegas. I have to crank the input gain on the pre up to about 3 o'clock, but have plenty of visible gain. The Preamp was cheap, and it even has a built in "tube" to add color (chorusy distortion) to the sound.

It worked for me.

P
RiRo wrote on 7/6/2004, 12:41 PM
The SM-58 isn't the right mic for the job here. I have the MobilePre, and hooked up a 58 to check. Pretty weak. I use a Marshall 2003 large diaphragm condenser, and it works quite nicely with the MobilePre. I do work the mic fairly close, to get the proximity effect.

RiRo
RiRo wrote on 7/6/2004, 12:47 PM
>>>>the 58 *is* suitable for all kinds of studio work and is used often for loud rock vocals, especially when recording "live" in a studio (all musicians playing together instead of overdubbing). It certainly would not be my first choice for voice over, but it may suit your needs fine<<<<

I've been in radio and agency voice over work for 24 years, and I have never seen this mic (SM-58) being used in a pro studio for voice overs. It is a great mic for its niche, but voice overs and commercial spoken vocal is not its forte. Use a condenser, an RE-20, a Sennheiser MD-441 or such. They show up in voice over studios. There is a reason they are there and not a bunch of SM-58s.

RiRo
AAvideo wrote on 7/6/2004, 8:54 PM
If I wanted to go with a more inexpensive mic, good for doing voiceovers, what should I go with? There were some other good ideas, but I wanted to stay with something a little more economical. Also, I have been getting a fair amount of echo....any ideas??
drbam wrote on 7/6/2004, 9:23 PM
For those on a tight budget, the Audio Technica ATM25 (not the "Pro 25") is sometimes referred to as the poor man's RE20. Street price is usually around $125-140 for a new one. The ATM25 is also great on toms and kick drums. Again its a dynamic mic so it will be similar to the SM 58 in terms of sensitivity - maybe a bit better in this regard. The next step up, IMO, would be a Sennheiser MD 421, but you're moving into the $300 range. However, I would also suggest considering the Studio Projects B1. A large condenser that sounds amazing for the money and is less than $100. You would have a plenty of gain with this.

You need to explain "a fair amount of echo" in more detail.

drbam
MrPhil wrote on 7/7/2004, 2:30 AM
is maybe the input on the layla at +4db level, and the output at -10db?
can there be a switch somewhere on the mackie?
AAvideo wrote on 7/7/2004, 5:27 AM
Thanks for the recommendation. "a fair amount of echo" seems to be this reverberation. It isn't really THAT much, but it is enough to be annoying. I have turned the speakers ALL the way DOWN. Maybe I need to mute them through the panel? Its almost as if is somehow still picking up.....maybe through the soundblaster somehow?......I doubt it......
MrPhil wrote on 7/8/2004, 3:36 AM
Which inputs are selected in your windows mixer?
"what-u-hear" ?