Mobo/CPU - best value???

Cliff Etzel wrote on 6/9/2006, 1:06 PM
I'm finally realizing my 845WN mobo and P4 2.4 ghz cpu with PC133 ram is showing it's age.

I've started doing research on upgrading these components but to be honest - I'm totally confused which way to go - I have been a died in the wool Intel mobo and CPU user since the beginning. Now with al f the changes that have taken place I'm confused if I should stick with the Intel line or look at AMD. My son says AMD roxors for gaming, but I want a solid editing solution for SD right now and the ability to edit HD later on. Of course budgetary constraints dictate my purchase, so what do I do - I've searched all the techweenie sites and one moment it's AMD, the next it's Intel.

most turnkey solutions seem to stick with Intel (Boxx is my reference) - and then there is the issue of 64 bit processors -vs- 32 bit ... aaahhhhhhhh!!!

Could someone layout the best bang for the buck mobo/cpu combo??? Which ones are tried and tested.. I've been to Videoguys website - but their recommendations are out of my price range currently.

Or do I stick with what I have currently and wait awhile longer.. totally stumped right now...

Cliff

Comments

jaydeeee wrote on 6/9/2006, 1:41 PM
I'll try and keep it brief:

Obvious rule is, system tech just gets faster and better as time goes by (usually). You can wait, and wait but eventually you got to dive in and buy, right?
I really think you should focus on the dual-core procs if you're gearing it towards content creation (and have multi-tasking needs).

If you want to stay Intel, I'd avoid the Pentium "D" line (intel dual-core) and wait for their newer dual-core procs to come down in price b4 buying (read: hold onto your 2.4 even longer). The pent d prices have dropped (but for a reason) but I would rec u avoid.

or...do what most are doing

On a solid socket 939 motherboard and quality dual-channel memory, the Amd x2 4400 or x2 4800 = great bang for the buck processors right now. I've seen nothing less than great performance with my 4400+.

Then the motherboard is even more important - so research, research, research before buying.

example:
I need a solid DAW and a/v system, so I chose the Gigabyte K8NS Ultra 939 mobo (avoiding pci-e video).
*onboard features:
Nvidia NF3 Ultra chipset (great for daws - a/v systems, avoids pci-e)
USB 2.0
T.I 1394b firewire
4 SATA (2 SiL offering RAID configs)
IDE
dual-lan
onboard sound (if you need it).


Find the proc you can afford and then find the best mobo for it (research lots of tech forums on each mobo). I'm betting you'll come to the realization it's time to try AMD if buying right now.
* Build a custom sys yourself, it's not that tough (and you'll save $).
GlennChan wrote on 6/9/2006, 2:48 PM
1- On the really cheap end, look at something like a hot deal on a Dell or eMachines box. It can come out maybe $80 cheaper than putting something together yourself, not counting labour.
Dell doesn't do AMD processors right now unfortunately.

The argument against doing this is that the machine will have limited upgradeability. But as you're probably finding out, once a computer hits a certain age you might as well just get a new one.
Dell's support may not be that great... see resellerratings.com

2- For custom-built machines, AMD should have the best bang for the buck. On the high end, they are leading in performance.



As far as benchmarks go, I would only look at relevant benchmarks. You can see that performance sways for either camp depending on what's being tested. In a practical sense, you should only concern yourself with the programs you use.

For Vegas, the best benchmark I've seen is the old rendertest.veg

Note that benchmark performance doesn't always extrapolate to real world performance. rendertest.veg may be a little contrived, since the dual core/CPU users have to jump through some hoops to get the fastest results (i.e. close video preview window).

Here's my compilation of results:



39s - AMD X2 4600+
SOURCE: JohnnyRoy @ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=423138&Replies=4

*39s/74s - AMD X2 4400+ (Toledo core, 2X2.2ghz, 2X1MB cache, no dual channel memory, Vegas 6.0b)
SOURCE: philfort@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=399447&Replies=26

*40s/76s - AMD X2 4400+ (Toledo core, 2X2.2ghz, 2X1MB cache, no dual channel memory, Vegas 6.0b)
SOURCE: TheRhino@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=396239&Replies=61

45s - Pentium D 3.0ghz
SOURCE: GMElliot @ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=423138&Replies=8

*75s - P4 3.6ghz overclocked from 3.0 Pentium. A new 5xx-series 3.6ghz should be as fast or slightly slower.
SOURCE: Stormcrow@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=396239&Replies=57

78s- AMD64 3700+ (san diego core??? [2.2ghz, 1MB cache], vegas 6, dual channel RAM)
SOURCE: Charley Gallgher@ http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45178&page=2&pp=15

*78s- P4 3.2 overclocked to 3.8ghz (Northwood core???, 800FSB [it's overclocked, so the FSB is actually higher])
SOURCE: jamcas@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=256422

79s- AMD64 3400+ (unknown core, Vegas 6)
SOURCE: Charley Gallagher@ http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45178&page=2&pp=15

89s- 3.0E Pentium Prescott (865 chipset, dual channel RAM, Vegas 5)
SOURCE: Glenn Chan@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=396239&Replies=57

90s - 2.8ghz Pentium (Prescott)
SOURCE: TalawaMan@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=262716

90s - Opteron 246 2.0ghz X 2 (dual channel memory, old 2004 core, *VEGAS 5*)
SOURCE: rohde@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=256422
*Please keep in mind Vegas6 has optimizations for dual processors, while Vegas 5 does not.

93s - AMD64 3200+ (2004, so probably old core)
SOURCE: PH125@ http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=256422
99s is Sid Phillip's report in the same thread.

95s - AMD64 3000+ (2.00ghz, 512kb cache, single channel, socket 754, 2004 core)
SOURCE: ibliss@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=256422

114s - Pentium-M 1.7ghz laptop
SOURCE: The_Jeff@ http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=262716

128s - Sempron 2400+ 1.4ghz (Palmero core, S754, 256KB cache)
SOURCE: Glenn Chan

Athlon XP: There are results if you look around. They aren't as fast as Pentiums or AMD64.

Platforms that support dual channel can run a few percent slower when running memory single channel. See Glenn Chan's (that's me) benchmarks at
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18841
Systems with 2 pairs of identical RAM may also perform slightly faster.

Northwood-core Pentiums are about 6% slower than Prescott-cores (the 5xx series). Northwoods are typically faster at everything else, and consume less electricity.

Overclocked systems are not necessarily stable. As well, they may perform slightly better or worse than a stock system running at the same clock speed. Overclocking on Intel/Pentium platform implies an increase in FSB speed, and an increase or decrease in RAM speed (depends on the RAM they use).
fldave wrote on 6/9/2006, 3:58 PM
ocean,

You might gain a little more life out of your machine by doing a clean install of Windows XP. I tend to reinstall every 18 months to clean out the accumulated clutter in the registry, HD, etc. If you haven't had to reinstall lately, that may buy you another 6 months while you research some more.
Cliff Etzel wrote on 6/9/2006, 4:21 PM
I was kind of wondering that myself about doing a fresh install - I REALLY don't like the idea of upgrading (I am trying to do my small part to reduce my consumption - trying to be a green consumer)

My machine has been rock solid since standardizing on Intel mobo and CPU's and I hate deviating from what I know.

Think I'll just do a fresh install and see how that works for me - I'm still shooting a TRV950 so I am not concerned with HD capability at the moment.

Think I'll do a complete nuke & pave this weekend and see how that works...

Cliff
fldave wrote on 6/9/2006, 4:35 PM
Save all of your data/config first! I usually do screen prints of my machine name/internet/network/email settings. If you use Outlook, the folder is usually buried in Application Data folder of your Documents and Settings. Ifyou use raid card, get your driver disk handy.

I have "My Documents" pointing to a separate data drive, so that takes care of most of my data.
Cliff Etzel wrote on 6/9/2006, 4:43 PM
I do as well, and don't use Outlook - Instead all my email is done thru gmail.. ;)
johnmeyer wrote on 6/9/2006, 5:08 PM
AMD is the way to go, based on everything I've read and also on dozens of posts in this forum from people "that know."

Tigerdirect.com has great deals on Mobo/CPU combos. May not have the fastest in the world.

Toms Hardware is a site that has lots of measurements and specs.
riredale wrote on 6/10/2006, 10:53 AM
I'll second what John says, but with a caveat. AMD currently is in the winner's circle when compared to Intel, BUT--

Latest tests of soon-to-be-introduced processors ("Conroe") from Intel showing the balance shifting back to Intel, maybe by this winter. Faster rendering and lower power consumption than AMD, or at least what AMD currently shows.

I myself am an AMD bigot, having favored the "little guy" since the late 90's. I'm typing this reply on an XP 2100 (3-year-old AMD technology), and one of these days I'll rebuild the PC box with an AMD 3800+/x2 processor and Asus Motherboard that's sitting in a nearby closet. Then I'll be only one year behind!
stewade wrote on 6/10/2006, 11:29 AM
I've just done a tonne of research and settled on these primary components for the new system I ordered last week. Speed and reliability were my main criteria.

Case: 1 x Antec LifeStyle - Sonata-II Quiet Piano Black Super Mini-Tower Case - 450W PSU

Motherboard: 1 x ASUS A8N-SLI Premium, nForce4-SLI, S939, DDR400, RAID, GigLAN, SATA, ATX

Memory - RAM: 2 x Corsair 1024MB (2 x 512MB) TWINX1024-3200C2 (400MHz) DDR RAM

CPU: 1 x AMD Athlon64 X2 4400+ (2.2Ghz), S939, 2x1MB, 2000HT, 90nm, Dual Core

Hard Disk Drive: 1 x Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000rpm Serial ATA150 HDD w. 8MB Cache

Hard Disk Drive: 2 x Western Digital 250GB 7200rpm Serial ATA-II-300 HDD w. 16MB Cache (will be RAID0 config)

Video: Leadtek GeForce 7600GT, 256MB, 2xDVI, PCI-Ex16 - Extreme Edition

I ~am~ curious about the commentary "avoids pci-e" JD. Have I missed something? Never had a problem with it...
jaydeeee wrote on 6/10/2006, 7:08 PM
>>>I ~am~ curious about the commentary "avoids pci-e" JD. Have I missed something? Never had a problem with it...<<<

Well, you don't mention your usage and what components a/v components you'll be using.
I'm not saying to definitely avoid a pci-e mobo as that wouldn't apply to all users, I'm saying "I" chose to go with an AGP/PCI design mobo.
When building a solid DAW and A/V system the mobo is very important and a little research goes a long way.
If you search many daw/av sites you will read of issues with the new pci-e bus COMPETING with all pci devices, essentially causing sys inefficency which could cause issues with all other devices on the bus causing several daw/av related issues. These can include many of the pci audio interfaces available today, certain fwire cards, added raid i/o cards, UAD cards, etc - anything on the pci bus.

Also, with the addition of pci-e, came a reduction of available regular pci slots. Bad for MY daw-av needs (and i can care less about gaming or pci-e video). Right now pci-e offers improved performance in one area - gaming (sli pci-e) for one example. If you're a gamer, then utilizing pci-e and sli is right up your alley.
And/or unless....unless you know that you'll be needing a pci-e card (such as a decklink, etc.), then you prob will want to go with the latest pci-e mobo. **Then again, going with a decklink - pay attention to their supported mobo's, it's VERY specific and limited.

There are zero pci-e audio interfaces available and won't be for quite some time. So knowing I could care less about the advantages of pci-e video and gaming, I chose the mobo that avoids the possible daw/av issues at hand, yet still will offer the features I need (and allow my daw to operate at 100% efficiency) with the components I care care about (I have the x2 4400+ too).
This researching on many pro audio/daw sites is why I went with a slighty older mobo/chipset design (gigabyte K8ns ultra 939 for example).

So, you'll have to assess your needs and components before deciding, but you might not have any issues going with a pci-e mobo at all depending on your scenario. If you use a fwire audio interface (basic audio i/o needs) then you're prob alright there.

Personally, imo fwire audio interfaces are ok for minor/basic tracking - but not for a full on studio daw, they aren't there yet imo.
Some may need what a pci audio interface can offer (solid/glitchless 16-24+ in for tracking @ 24/192, etc).
johnmeyer wrote on 6/10/2006, 7:54 PM
riredale has far more information than I do. However, one thing to add to the mix: rate of change in compute power has been slowing down a LOT. Disk size rate of change has actually increased, but the speed (not just clock rate, but the speed with which the computer can complete given tasks) of computers no longer increases as quickly as it used to. Therefore, I wouldn't wait too long. If you need it now, buy it now.
jaydeeee wrote on 6/10/2006, 8:19 PM
Not to mention the intial price in moving to conroe. Most will wait (a while) before prices make it interesting to move there.
So, this is why I mention a hard look at the amd x2 (4400 - 4800+ namely) if you're buying now. Great perf and a nice price overall.

Or...hang onto that 2.4 as long as you can if your set on staying with Intel.
Jay-Hancock wrote on 6/10/2006, 9:22 PM
Glenn - where can we find this rendertest.veg file? I'd really like to do some tests of my own.

Thanks!
GlennChan wrote on 6/11/2006, 4:23 PM
Get the original rendertest.veg, not the new one. You can download it from:
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?id=35443070-0b67-4a2e-807c-a7f431ebd02d

Cheers.