Mocha jitter

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/4/2023, 8:16 AM

As a test I just used mocha to put this still image on the front of this ship. I've done it with two different images and both have a bad jitter when previewing and also when rendered. Anyone know what's causing this and what I might be doing wrong? Thanks.

Comments

Former user wrote on 11/4/2023, 10:55 AM

@Roger Bansemer  Hi, I don't see any 'jitter', the image seems well planted on the ship but the image itself is pixelated or is noisy if that is what you're ref to?

Can you share more info about the project, media etc..

harry-worth wrote on 11/4/2023, 11:02 AM

  Have added another picture using Mocha within BCC. What size picture did you use? I just grabbed a pic (1600x1067 )

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/4/2023, 12:45 PM

Yes, your picture you added looks fine. The image I used was 3060x4080 bit depth 24 and taken with my cell phone. I think you could see where my image jittered. I think I'm using the right description.

I just tried another still image which was 2160x3840 and it looked fine. Very strange...

Former user wrote on 11/4/2023, 1:06 PM

. I think you could see where my image jittered. I think I'm using the right description.

@Roger Bansemer Watched it a dozen times, I see a picture that stays exactly in place because of a rock steady track, the image is pixelated/noisy. 🤷‍♂️

Can you describe what you mean by 'jitter' ?

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😁

Robert Johnston wrote on 11/4/2023, 2:32 PM

@Roger Bansemer  I would first try reducing the image size in Photoshop or whatever to about the size it's going to be in the video. I've seen my high resolution images with a lot of detail when scaled way down in NLEs sparkle, jitter, make noise, look over-sharpened, or whatever you want to call it. I suppose you could also try a small amount of gaussian blur before pan/crop.

Intel Core i7 10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz (to 4.65GHz), NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GBytes. Memory 32 GBytes DDR4. Also Intel UHD Graphics 630. Mainboard: Dell Inc. PCI-Express 3.0 (8.0 GT/s) Comet Lake. Bench CPU Multi Thread: 5500.5 per CPU-Z.

Vegas Pro 21.0 (Build 108) with Mocha Vegas

Windows 11 not pro

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/4/2023, 2:57 PM

. I think you could see where my image jittered. I think I'm using the right description.

@Roger Bansemer Watched it a dozen times, I see a picture that stays exactly in place because of a rock steady track, the image is pixelated/noisy. 🤷‍♂️

Can you describe what you mean by 'jitter' ?

----

😁

. I think you could see where my image jittered. I think I'm using the right description.

@Roger Bansemer Watched it a dozen times, I see a picture that stays exactly in place because of a rock steady track, the image is pixelated/noisy. 🤷‍♂️

Can you describe what you mean by 'jitter' ?

----

😁

yes, the borders of the image is solid but the photo itself is jittery, pixalated or whatever you might describe it as which is unusable.
I've just never run across this before so it was a surprise. The solution is not to have an image with a resolution larger than what the video resolution is. This is strange because I shoot in 4k and the images don't jitter even though I have my properties set to 1080.

Former user wrote on 11/4/2023, 3:28 PM

@Roger Bansemer Hmm, can you share the MediaInfo of the image you were using?

This image of sky that i replaced my name with is a jpg 12000x9000, no problems

4K png, again no prob

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/5/2023, 6:50 AM

I'll use the term "glitter" instead of jitter as the image looks like it's made up of metalic glitter like you'd put on a birthday card. Hope that clears up the description. Please let me know if there is an actual term for this.

The image I used was 3060x4080. bit depth 24 on the far right insert.
I reduced the resolution on the middle image and it's still glittery.
I tried yet another image on the left side and still glitter.
This is baffling.

 

RogerS wrote on 11/5/2023, 7:21 AM

When you rendered it you used the render quality best setting (project properties)?

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/5/2023, 10:39 AM

I used Voukoder which always works fine. That "glitter" appears in my preview as well even on full so I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with the rendering.

Former user wrote on 11/5/2023, 11:08 AM

@Roger Bansemer I used Voukoder in the vids above, but I just tried again using default settings for Magix AVC (not Best), no prob, still can't create the twinkly effect 🤷‍♂️,

I redid the video because in the light of day I realised I was off the water level at the back of the boat, 😂,

harry-worth wrote on 11/5/2023, 11:20 AM

Can you upload that original picture so we can have a play?

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/5/2023, 12:11 PM

Here it is.

Former user wrote on 11/5/2023, 12:24 PM

Here it is.


@Roger Bansemer Uploading a pic or video onto a forum is useless as it gets recoded in the upload/download, You need to upload to a file sharing site such as Google Drive that doesn't alter the file in any way..

Open Google, top right is a sq of dots - Open Google Drive.
Drag that video onto the Google Drive window, let it upload.
Right click on the file on screen - Share.
A window will pop up, General Access - choose anyone with the link - Copy link.
Then on here in a new comment at the top there's a chain button, paste the link on there
Click Comment
 

Former user wrote on 11/5/2023, 3:20 PM

@Roger Bansemer I want to know the answer to this nearly as much as you but you need to share everything 👍

  • Put a copy of the ship video & the photo on Google Drive,
  • Check all your drivers are up to date,
  • Share pics of your project settings & render settings,
  • Pics of the full Vegas UI inc pics of any/all fxs.
  • Where is the video & picture stored

Share everything even if you don't think it is important, the more info/pics the better.

RogerS wrote on 11/5/2023, 9:02 PM

If this is really what the original image looks like it has no detail and is way oversharpened (crop of a phone pic?) That may not downscale very nicely as the edges are too harsh.

But yes, share everything Gid asks for and hopefully we'll get closer to a resolution for this. Even sharing the project file would be good- we can swap out the image and see if that's the issue.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Former user wrote on 11/5/2023, 10:36 PM

@RogerS Hi, there's something going on but I can't put my finger on it, that picture shared in the comment above isn't the best & when I first opened Mocha it seemed to glitter, not as much as the OPs but it did sparkle a little, zooming in though showed the image to be ok, & rendering from Vegas there was no prob either.

That picture isn't the orig so looks quite different to the OPs vid. & I'm using Mocha Pro so maybe there's something about the combination of Vegas Mocha or something to with how it inserts, I can't comment on that.

This is Mocha Pro & Vegas's timeline then the finished render is at the end.

 

RogerS wrote on 11/5/2023, 11:21 PM

The image there looks like it's playing back in preview/draft mode as if it's 90% interpolation and 10% image data. Like a mosaic pixelation effect.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Former user wrote on 11/6/2023, 12:56 AM

@RogerS Not sure if you're talking about my version.

In Vegas the project is 1920x1080, Preview is set at Good (Half), On my 32" screen for that size project it should be at Good (Full), that's my fault, I normally work in 3840x2160 & (Half) plays better then (Full), I forgot to change it but that shouldn't affect the final render.

I did try changing Preview & a few other settings in the earlier videos but still couldn't make the picture jitter glitter, that's why i want to know more details from @Roger Bansemer, this also could be a Vegas Mocha thing which means I'm out 🤷‍♂️

RogerS wrote on 11/6/2023, 1:06 AM

The one on the right, which I think is the original.

I do have VEGAS Mocha and can test if there's a sample project with the same media.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Former user wrote on 11/6/2023, 1:10 AM

@Roger Bansemer Yep the one on the right is orig, I'm off to bed, been up all night,

All I know is Vegas Mocha has to be transferred through PinP (is it?) where the picture might be getting altered 🤷‍♂️ It'd be interesting to find a resolve to this 👍

MikeS wrote on 11/6/2023, 7:49 AM

Almost certainly due to PiP. PiP resizes things pretty poorly ... and using Mocha Vegas and PiP I was able to match the 'glitter' effect. Mocha Pro and its Insert module don't have the same problem.

Vegas Post 21 Build 300
Boris FX Continuum for OFX 2024 Build 17.0.3.380
Boris FX Mocha Pro Plug-in 2022.5 v11.0.1 Build 13
Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRIME Z890-P motherboard
Intel Core i7-97000K @ 3.6GHz
RAM 32GB (2x 16GB) 2666MHz DDR4
GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER

Roger Bansemer wrote on 11/6/2023, 8:39 AM

I've uploaded the two files to Google Drive. Haven't used it before so hope I got it right.
I've also uploaded (below) a new render of the issue showing the same still photo as a pip moving across the video which has no glitter effect.

Here's the link to google drive (hopefully) to the two files used in the issue.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1G2BX_ZESxPww7zvUy0nNpUAkgL0hC_f_?usp=sharing

ps. My drivers are up to date as of this morning which includes this latest sample. The video and still are stored on my laptop and not on a stick or something like that. My render settings are fine I think as I've rendered it as an MXF and also mp4.

MikeS wrote on 11/6/2023, 10:31 AM

> pip moving across the video which has no glitter effect.

Becasue it remains a fixed size ...

Vegas Post 21 Build 300
Boris FX Continuum for OFX 2024 Build 17.0.3.380
Boris FX Mocha Pro Plug-in 2022.5 v11.0.1 Build 13
Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRIME Z890-P motherboard
Intel Core i7-97000K @ 3.6GHz
RAM 32GB (2x 16GB) 2666MHz DDR4
GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER