MOCHA PRO in VP18: Remove Render Template?

Grazie wrote on 8/28/2020, 6:08 AM

Now, this isn’t any VEGAS Render template, it is purely the Remove Render option for the Remove Template. It is glacial slow. Now, the Remove Process within MP is fast and furiously efficient - that works. It’s stunning. This is purely the Render Previewing Remove Template.

Has anybody had full or near to Full Frame Rate? Presently I’m needing to export a MOV from within MOCHA Pro and THEN import that. This is maddening as this is marketed as an OFX. Both Boris and MAGIX need to assist each other with this.

So, anybody got success with MOCHA PRO Remove Template functioning back in VEGAS PRO?

TIA - G

Comments

michael-harrison wrote on 8/28/2020, 6:49 AM

It's a little unclear what you're doing. Are you using the remove capabilities in Silhouette paint or are you using some other BCC plugin?

If the core problem you're having is preview becomes sluggish or unusable after doing a lot of work in BCC/Mocha, I can confirm. Depending on what I'm doing I preview in the Boris tool as much as I can and ignore the sluggish preview in VP. I'll periodically do a targeted render to make sure I'll get the right results out of VP. It's not markedly different in AE though AE speeds up after the first playback due to the caching that it does.

I think the pipeline in VP just isn't well optimized. Not sure if Magix or Boris needs to do the brunt of the work.

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

Grazie wrote on 8/28/2020, 7:39 AM

It's a little unclear what you're doing.

@michael-harrison - Apologies.

Are you using the remove capabilities in Silhouette paint

@michael-harrison - No.

or are you using some other BCC plugin?

@michael-harrison - As I said, I'm using BORIS MOCHA Pro.

If the core problem you're having is preview becomes sluggish or unusable after doing a lot of work in BCC/Mocha, I can confirm.

@michael-harrison - Only on that Event that I worked on. Once out of MOCHA Pro there is this Control Array:

As the heavy lifting has already been done, what on Earth is the issue with the then VP handling an obvious Control Array within this OFX Control to produce adequate FPS? @michael-harrison Do you attempt to use this Control/s? Well, you obviously have to.

Depending on what I'm doing I preview in the Boris tool as much as I can and ignore the sluggish preview in VP.

@michael-harrison - Really? You put up with this? Well, I find this unacceptable.

I'll periodically do a targeted render to make sure I'll get the right results out of VP. It's not markedly different in AE though AE speeds up after the first playback due to the caching that it does.

@michael-harrison - And again, the hard work has already been done - why is Vegas Pro making such a struggle or meal out of this?

I think the pipeline in VP just isn't well optimized.

@michael-harrison - You think?!? And again, unacceptable.

Not sure if Magix or Boris needs to do the brunt of the work.

@michael-harrison - And here we lay, spent the dosh and nobody to pick up the Baton.

@michael-harrison - Thank you very much for reacting to my Post. I just wish I could get VegasCreativeSoftware to work with BORIS over this.

 

michael-harrison wrote on 8/28/2020, 8:57 AM

@Grazie "Really? You put up with this? Well, I find this unacceptable."

What's the alternative? I could learn a new NLE (and am slowly doing so) but I have enough work now that requires me to use the tools I already know that dropping VP wouldn't be reasonable. I am using AE for some of my workflow as it's notably faster in areas, but for cutting and layout, VP is my go-to tool.

Working around obstacles is a tried and true way of getting the work done.

If you have access to another tool such as AE, try doing your mocha work there and then import the finished clip into VP for the rest of your editing. For example, I had some recent work that had me using Flicker Fixer, Pixel Fixer, Unsharp, and multiple lens burs with mocha masks on the same clip. If I'd tried to do all that in VP I'd have shot myself. AE though worked quite a lot faster and working with the resulting clip in VP had me previewing at full speed.

"You think?!? And again, unacceptable."

And the alternative is? If you want to convince them to give me access to the source (2D&3D graphics programming was my life's blood for two decades) I'll see what I can do. I'm only kidding a little.

My understanding is that Vegas has a small team and they've got to pick and choose carefully what they work on. Regardless, they also have to satisfy the demands of their parent and it's clear to me that Magix is busy fragmenting their product lines and don't really know how they can succeed in the future.

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

joelsonforte.br wrote on 8/28/2020, 3:10 PM

@Grazie

The Render Module of the Mocha Pro Plug-in is slow on all the editing platforms I use, not just in Vegas. It is also slow in Premiere and After Effects.

This is because the editing platforms do not yet use the internal cache of the Mocha Pro Plugin to view the Tracked Layers + the selected Composition Module. This makes the editing platform need to Render the preview and this uses a lot of memory and processor, making the preview very slow.

But, If you do a new tracking in the selected Composition Module (in your case, the Remove Module), you can do a much faster rendering directly from the Mocha Pro Plugin.  

After that you can import the rendered video into Vegas and work with smooth playback.

See how I do it when I use the Insert Module. I believe that the Remove Module follows the same principle.

Grazie wrote on 8/28/2020, 4:12 PM

@joelsonforte.br - Thanks for your input on this, you’ve made the points I wished to explore and I shall respond, when I’ve calmed down 😉.

Grazie wrote on 8/29/2020, 6:24 AM

@Grazie

The Render Module of the Mocha Pro Plug-in is slow on all the editing platforms I use, not just in Vegas. It is also slow in Premiere and After Effects.

@joelsonforte.br - Oh is it? This is once back in VP and outside of the MOCHA Workspace - yes? The actual MP Workspace Remove happens truly rapidly, no complaints.

This is because the editing platforms do not yet use the internal cache of the Mocha Pro Plugin to view the Tracked Layers + the selected Composition Module. This makes the editing platform need to Render the preview and this uses a lot of memory and processor, making the preview very slow.

@joelsonforte.br - Then why sell a product as a Plugin that can't be Previewed back in the Host- here that's VP? Which company is waiting on who/whom? Magix on Boris or Boris on Magix?

But, If you do a new tracking in the selected Composition Module (in your case, the Remove Module), you can do a much faster rendering directly from the Mocha Pro Plugin.

@joelsonforte.br - OK, a few years back I'm starting to remember your advice on this. I'm confusing the work flow. Please show me the work flow you are suggesting.

After that you can import the rendered video into Vegas and work with smooth playback.

See how I do it when I use the Insert Module. I believe that the Remove Module follows the same principle.

@joelsonforte.br - Now I'm confusing myself?

Grazie wrote on 8/29/2020, 6:36 AM

@joelsonforte.br - Ah, right, yes I DO do the MOV export, as you do, to get flowing realtime. Sure, you make sure you've got it right by going back and forth to VP, yes, understood. And yes, you're using the Composite, understood, but I'm using the Remove Module, which is slow, and to get around that I too created the MOV. And that's my crucial point: why have a Remove Module if it can't do the job? Should I NOT select the Remove Module? What else is there?