More 24P newbie confusion

Cooldraft wrote on 6/4/2006, 12:47 PM

I used 4 cameras on this shoot in Jan and just now throwing my hands up in frustration. Z1U, VX2100, TRV-950 x2. All cameras were set to record 4:3 standard def. All tapes were captured from a 'poor mans deck' (panasonic GS120). When I squiggle (ctrl drag) the z1u footage, I get strobing as Vegas slows down the footage. I do the same procedure with the standard def cameras and Vegas does the slowmo as it should.

On the 24P thing, I rendered an mpg, avi, avi (24p w/2-3 pulldown) with multirender. On the 24p avi EVERY shot taken with the Z1U stobes, while the other 3 cameras do not. Cake Dive24p). The standard DV looks great minus when I slowmo the z1u footage in a CCSEC (creative cameraperson shooting error coverup). cake dive normal We are trying to get on board this HD/24p/25p bus but it is still moving too fast for us OKIEs :)

Bummer, just checked the wmv, and the strobing can not be seen clearly. Oh well, mabye someone know what I am doing wrong by the poor description :)

Comments

David Jimerson wrote on 6/4/2006, 1:09 PM

What mode did you shoot the Z1 in? 60i? CF24?

I can't tell which footage in the Cake Dive 24p video is the "bad" footage as compared to the rest -- but I will say that you have a LOT of quick camera moves -- pans, zooms, tilts -- and that's going to get you into trouble when you convert to 24p, no matter which camera you use. You simply can't move the camera like that and expect a good 24p result. If you took a 24p or a 24 fps film camera and moved it like that, it would strobe just as badly. If you want a 24p final result, you have to be shooting from the get-go as if you're shooting 24p.

I note in the one shot the 950 is on a tripod? Are the cameras you're saying aren't giving you the bad results tripod-mounts without a lot of motion, while the Z1 is used for handheld with a lot of motion? If so, there's your answer right there.

Also, it looks like you edited in 60i then coverted to 24p? In general, don't do that. If you want your final project to be 24p, make the conversions before you edit and work in a 24p project. This is essential for good-quality transitions, text, color-correct, etc..

If you want/plan to do a lot of projects to deliver as 24p, I'd strongly suggest purchasing a native 24p camera. You *can* shoot in 60i, move the camera correctly, and get a good 24p result, but ultimately, the extra steps involved and the necessary quality hit you'll take when you convert (resolution loss) might make a native 24p cam a worthy investment. Food for thought.

But one thing I would also note . . . different frame rates have different uses. A slower framerate is good for drama and a cinematic feel. A faster framerate is good for quick motion like sports, live events, etc.. If the very kinetic shooting style you chose for this event is what you want, then you might reconsider whether you really want this project to be 24p. Fit the tool to the job.

Cooldraft wrote on 6/4/2006, 1:55 PM

OK, this answers all my questions. You were 100% right. Z1U handheld,950s on tripods, but the 2100 was handheld as well. I guess 24p is not what I am looking for. I don't want the 'wet' video look that everybody is talking about. Client liked the look of the 1 chip camera than the 3 chippers. Wow, are we going backwards? Thank you for your time.

winrockpost wrote on 6/4/2006, 2:21 PM

all the cams you mentioned are 3 chip, unless i missed something,, and on the best of days its pretty tuff to match 3 different cam models.

Cooldraft wrote on 6/4/2006, 3:43 PM

Yes, but one of the talents was taping with a canon one chipper. The guy holding one of the mics has a camera.

David Jimerson wrote on 6/4/2006, 3:45 PM

Try converting to 30p. It would be the same as converting to 24p, just with a framerate of 29.976.

In your project settings, make sure your deinterlace method is set to "interpolate fields," not "blend fields."

You may get rid of that "wet" look but still have acceptable results.

apit34356 wrote on 6/4/2006, 10:47 PM

I believe JohnMeyer has posted about a ulitily called "deshaker", I think. This may help with some unwanted motion/shaking. You really have too much motion for 24p, try deshake with virtualdub, then 30p, as David suggested, if you have too.

Serena wrote on 6/5/2006, 1:42 AM

Indeed John did: deshaker guide

Excellent guide and I've been surprised how well Deshaker does fixing up handheld shots that were spoiled by movement (on boat) and unsteady tracking. I don't think it will work well on whizz pans and won't like fast zooms, but worth testing.

Cooldraft wrote on 6/10/2006, 7:08 AM

This shows NO difference. I rendered a test at 29.97 Interpolated Progressive, 24 Interpolated (totally different project), after rendering to dvd, they both look the same. There is something that I am missing here.