Motion tracking - strange behavior

AlesCZ wrote on 4/22/2019, 1:16 PM

Hello,

Today I bought Vegas Pro 16, mainly for motion tracking and new stabilization.
I noticed that tracking is not accurate at all. Not applicable to professional work. I studied why this was happening. I found that the resulting keyframes are shifted one frame. If I move the object one frame forward, tracking is quite accurate (position only). Rotation and zoom continue to behave strangely. Maybe, not data paste to object?
So, the position works if you move everything one frame forward(check my screenshot). Rotation and zoom do not understand yet.
I was looking at other VP16 users' Youtube videos, they all have motion tracking terrible.

Comments

Grazie wrote on 4/22/2019, 1:58 PM

Yup, I’m listening.

AlesCZ wrote on 4/22/2019, 2:04 PM

Please, check this test video:
Another test:

Dimitrios wrote on 4/22/2019, 11:12 PM

The tracking works pretty good for tracked objects with a decent amount of contrast and not too fast of movement. But it's 2D tracking it's never going to look that good for the kind of motion that's going on in the shots for that you would need a 3D motion tracker.

AlesCZ wrote on 4/22/2019, 11:46 PM

Of course I know it's a classic 2D motion tracking. It is a so-called 2,5D tracking, ie position, rotation and size.
The problem is that this tracker has an error and needs to be fixed. Then it will be accurate and usable.
The second problem is that the PiP script only copies the location. If he copied the location, size(Scale) and rotation(Angle), the script would be great. Unfortunately, keyframes cannot be copied manually. I would have to copy the frame by frame and that would be a long time. Not usable.

However, the Size parameter may not be used for PiP. PiP does not have separate width and height parameters. But the Angle parameter should be no problem. But I can't write scripts or fix functions. I just need it to work properly.

That is, fix key frames offset (then the tracker will work properly) and add the Angle parameter to the PiP script. Please. That is all.

Thank you!

VEGASPascal wrote on 4/23/2019, 12:52 PM

Thanks for bringen this to my attention. I will have a look on it.

AlesCZ wrote on 4/23/2019, 3:44 PM

Thank you MagixPascal!

AVsupport wrote on 4/23/2019, 5:23 PM

You might be better off doing Tracking via Hitfilm integration (sadly)..

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

AlesCZ wrote on 4/23/2019, 11:35 PM

That's not good AVsupport. I don't want any third party apps, so I bought VP16. I have 2D and 3D camera tracking in several other post-production programs(free and paid), but I wanted to have the ability to tracking inside Vegas.
For simpler projects, this should be sufficient if it works.

And that's what a good software should do, simplifying work while maintaining a professional result.

fr0sty wrote on 4/24/2019, 12:32 AM

The best bet to have complex tracking inside Vegas is to use the Mocha Vegas Plugin, or to wait for Vegas Post to release, which seamlessly integrates with Vegas Pro much like After Effects does with Premiere (no idea if it will even have tracking, but hitfilm does, and those folks are making post). I'm sure the stock tracker will see further updates as well, but for the 3D planar stuff, go with Mocha.

Last changed by fr0sty on 4/24/2019, 12:35 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

AlesCZ wrote on 4/24/2019, 12:51 AM

Yes, Mocha has great results. But the new Vegas tracker has the potential. Basically it is planar tracking, which needs to be fixed. I can't spend money on another solution, I would have to be total crazy.

By the way, thank you all for your advice. I'm a little disappointed that the tracker doesn't work properly, so my reactions may sound a little arrogant, or something. But I appreciate every advice 😉

I hope to fix it soon.

AVsupport wrote on 4/24/2019, 5:59 PM

For simpler projects, this should be sufficient if it works.

And that's what a good software should do, simplifying work while maintaining a professional result.

Couldn't agree more, but sadly this feature only has been integrated perhaps a little hastily in the last VP version, hence the workaround until they get it right (hopefully in VP17). If someone could create a copy keyframes script this might be a start. There's also Mocha addons for the free HF version which might suit https://fxhome.com/store/hitfilm-express#mocha

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

AlesCZ wrote on 4/24/2019, 8:57 PM

For simpler projects, this should be sufficient if it works.

And that's what a good software should do, simplifying work while maintaining a professional result.

Couldn't agree more, but sadly this feature only has been integrated perhaps a little hastily in the last VP version, hence the workaround until they get it right (hopefully in VP17). If someone could create a copy keyframes script this might be a start. There's also Mocha addons for the free HF version which might suit https://fxhome.com/store/hitfilm-express#mocha

Thanks AVsupport. But I have several tools that work like Mocha. I want to use VP tracking mainly for words, 2d symbols, etc., or simple vfx. In short, quick work.

So now I'm just waiting for a patch to come out.

Ales

Vegas_Sebastian wrote on 4/26/2019, 6:15 AM

I found that the resulting keyframes are shifted one frame..

@AlesCZ You are right, sorry for that. Will be fixed in one of the next updates.

AlesCZ wrote on 4/26/2019, 11:22 AM

@Vegas_Sebastian Thank you!

alexander-liersch wrote on 5/9/2019, 10:40 AM

... add the Angle parameter to the PiP script. Please. That is all.

Thank you!

Me too! I would love to see at least the angle (rotation) would be copied when using the script. Would be nice if it at least would work by doing it copy&paste but it doesn't.

Vegas_Sebastian wrote on 5/10/2019, 9:37 AM

... add the Angle parameter to the PiP script. Please. That is all.

Thank you!

Me too! I would love to see at least the angle (rotation) would be copied when using the script. Would be nice if it at least would work by doing it copy&paste but it doesn't.

Agree, will be added in the next update.

karma17 wrote on 5/13/2019, 3:11 AM

That's cool you noticed that and politely reported it, and even better, the devs responded!!!

AlesCZ wrote on 8/5/2019, 7:21 AM

Thank you for fixing the bug in VP16. I will definitely buy VP17. LOL

karma17 wrote on 8/6/2019, 1:11 AM

Yes, I'm pleased to report the motion tracking is working very well in V17, nice and tight.

AlesCZ wrote on 8/6/2019, 1:32 AM

Yes, I'm pleased to report the motion tracking is working very well in V17, nice and tight.

This is not a very good result. Sorry. Maybe the same issue with the keyframe shifted.

karma17 wrote on 8/6/2019, 1:49 AM

It should be more like glued to the surface. Are you still seeing the problem you were?

karma17 wrote on 8/6/2019, 2:08 AM

I guess when I look at it closer, the text does appear a little jittery, is that being off by a frame? From a distance, it looked tighter.

 

 

fr0sty wrote on 8/6/2019, 2:11 AM

What settings did you use? What keyframe interval? "Position and Shape" tracking is how you enable planar 3d tracking.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/6/2019, 2:11 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Vincent-Mesman wrote on 8/6/2019, 2:15 AM

This reminds me of the motionblur issue that I use to have between SynthEyes and LightWave. At that time the motionblur in LightWave could not be phase shifted (NewTek added that feature since then) so I ended up moving keyframes by a factor that is related to 50% of the shutter speed setting of the background footage from the physical camera. Without applying motionblur in my animation package, the final composition looked fake - just like this video.