mp4 progressive playback for web headache

seanfl wrote on 3/14/2008, 8:05 AM

I've been working on a web project where they want mpg4 video to use for flash playback. One hurdle I couldn't get past is the inability for my mpg4 (h.264) files to start playback quickly. Other guys content would work fine, mine would not. They were using quicktime to encode their content; I'm using Vegas.

Turns out most web based flash players look for something called a moov atom and won't begin playback until they find it in the file. Vegas (and most other production tools) put it at the end of the file. Once I re-encoded it inside quicktime (with the streaming option checked) it now plays very quickly as the content continues to download in the background. I ended up exporting mov's, then taking them into quicktime and having it encode for mpg4 for decent quality.

Sony...any ability to put a check box for 'prepare for streaming' as we encode into mpg4 mainconcept encoder? Any other ideas on how to streamline my work flow?

you can read more about the problem
here

or

here

I'd love to be able to say "Sony Vegas can do that."

Thank you. Sean

Comments

Who8MyLunch wrote on 3/14/2008, 11:11 AM

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?thread=7522#msg45509

They mention using a freeware program called mp4box.exe that will reset the moov atom to the beginning. I've tried it with my mp4 files and it works fine. It's not as elegant a solution as doing it from within Vegas, but it works for me.

seanfl wrote on 1/11/2012, 6:22 PM

for anyone still struggling with this, I found a solution that (edit: might) work

mp4 fast start is a little program that takes the mpg4 file from vegas and makes it so it will stream.

http://www.datagoround.com/lab/
(update, it causes glitches in the streaming...mine started to glitch after 60 seconds in...so check it fully).

Sony Vegas...please give us the option to prep the file for streaming in the render dialog. We're at a disadvantage to other editors in this area...and more and more video is going to the web.

Sean
http://www.seancaldwell.com

dxdy wrote on 1/11/2012, 6:27 PM

Isn't this what the "Enable progressive download" check box is in the Render Window, Custom Settings window, Video tab (access via Customize Template button).

musicvid10 wrote on 1/11/2012, 7:19 PM

MP4FastStart causes problems with some upstream servers, Youtube being one.

One utility that does a perfect job on every web-based server/player we tried is called "AoA MP4 Patch".

Or the other thoroughly tested approach is to do the final encoding in Handbrake; it has a "Web Optimized" checkbox that does the same thing.

http://www.jazzythedog.com/testing/DNxHD/HD-Guide.aspx

amendegw wrote on 1/11/2012, 7:21 PM

Just to further elaborate - with Vegas 11, the MainConcept AVC/AAC encoder now has the "Enable Progessive Download" option:

There's also the free utility MP4 Faststart

As well as the free & highly recommended HandBrake's "Web Optimized" option:

...Jerry

Edit: musicvid - Ha! We're overposting each other again. At least we said the same thing, phew!!

PeterWright wrote on 1/11/2012, 9:26 PM

I just happened to be preparing a file for streaming, so I gave the Avid DNxHD / Handbrake method a try. The video quality is excellent, and the file size is one-third of the same thing as Main Concept or Sony MP4.

BUT - the audio is degraded - voice sounds a little like down a drain pipe - I've tried a few alternate settings without much improvement - any suggestions?

musicvid10 wrote on 1/11/2012, 9:38 PM

Peter Wright,
The faac encoder is less than stellar. You can set the audio bitrate at 320 instead of the default 160, and try the other aac encoder in the Handbrake nightlies (I haven't yet).

In the meantime, they are working on it. The Nero AAC encoder is not an option due to licensing restrictions.

PeterWright wrote on 1/11/2012, 9:42 PM

Thanks for the quick reply musicvid - I'll try some more alternatives.

edit: I don't seem to have an aac alternative - this is Handbrake 0.9.5 and apart from faac, there's mp3(lame), AC3 passthru and AC3 (ffmpeg)

musicvid10 wrote on 1/11/2012, 9:47 PM

When I want the best audio for home playback (and you know I'm a tightass about it), I use AC3 . But unfortunately that is not an option for flash-based web delivery at this time.

"this is Handbrake 0.9.5"
The link to the nightly builds is at the top of every Handbrake forum.

seanfl wrote on 1/11/2012, 10:17 PM

Musicvid, I guess I got excited too fast...just ran into the problems you described using mpg4 video on a site after I ran the file through mp4faststart.

So...maybe time to update to V11 based on the new option.

Sean
www.seancaldwell.com

musicvid10 wrote on 1/11/2012, 10:22 PM

http://www.aoamedia.com/mp4patch.htm

NickHope wrote on 1/11/2012, 11:50 PM

The Nero AAC codec can be used within MeGUI, and there are no problems with "fast start" of the encoded file. Help here.

TeetimeNC wrote on 1/12/2012, 11:10 AM

If you are sending your video to Vimeo or YouTube where it is re-encoded I assume this is NOT a concern - is that correct?

>MainConcept AVC/AAC encoder now has the "Enable Progessive Download" option:

/jerry

NickHope wrote on 1/12/2012, 11:25 AM

Correct, although I suppose they might not be able to start encoding the file so quickly. YouTube currently start encoding large uploads well before the upload is complete.

musicvid10 wrote on 1/12/2012, 11:30 AM

Youtube finishes processing your upload almost twice as fast if fast start / progressive download is enabled.
If you don't do it, Youtube still accepts the video, but won't begin processing until the entire thing has uploaded (unless something has changed very recently).

Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of videos each day, and it is easy to see why Youtube strongly recommends web-ready videos.
As I mentioned though, don't use MP4 FastStart for Youtube. Esp. with higher bitrate source, the output can be garbled.