Multi-Cam?

jetdv wrote on 2/4/2009, 8:08 AM

To me, the main advantage of the built-in multi-cam is the ability to click on the preview screen to change cameras. For all other factors, I think the scripts versions still have the advantage. For example:

Built-in: combines all the video tracks (and audio if that's what you select) into a single track.
Scripts: Leave all original tracks separate

Built-in: requires any corrective effects to be applied at the MEDIA level and will kill any Pan/Crop changes.
Scripts: lets you apply corrections at the media or event level and will keep pan/crop adjustments

Dan Sherman wrote on 2/4/2009, 9:20 AM

Yes, Edward, I found out that you say goodbye to all the colour correction if yout do it (as I did) before going into the built-in version of multi-camera.
But I'm still having problems getting my head around how I extract the final edited tracks after doing my edits in Excalibur.
My question is, simply put, after all the camera switching how do I get the master track. I don't see anything on the master track, only on the master tally.
Do I click something to have everything collapse into an video and audio tracks? I thought that's how it worked. But it's been a long time since I used the multi-cam scripts.
BTW I only recently upgraded to the lastest version of Excalibur.
It is so convenient to have it there running and ready to use anytime. What a time saver!

jetdv wrote on 2/4/2009, 9:32 AM

The general sequence is:

1. Add the clips to the tracks and properly number the tracks (i.e. "1" for camera 1 tracks, "2" for camera 2 tracks...)

2. Get them in sync and run the Sync tool (you can also use the sync tool to help in the syncing process but you may still need to fine-tune the sync) which will also create the PIP view.

3. Add the camera switches

4. Then run the "Multi-cam" tool which will create the Master track based on you camera selections. Similar to the built-in multi-cam tool, it will also add the extra camera angles as "Takes".

There's a video here that shows the multi-cam process using the previous version of Excalibur but the basics are the same.

Dan Sherman wrote on 2/4/2009, 9:39 AM

I'm right on track then, just have to run the "Multi-Cam" tool at the end of it all.
Thanks for the link as well, Edward.
We're on our way!

Jim H wrote on 2/4/2009, 6:30 PM

Good timing on this post. I'm shooting a three camera live event on Friday night. I'm filming a friends "Big Band" just for the experience and because I need a reason to use all the toys I buy.

Anything I should do to save time in edit? I'll be shooting with two Cannon HG10s and a Sony HDR HC1. It's just me and another cameraman.

My plan was to set up the Sony in the center and leave it recording a full stage shot and also act as the master audio track. (not sure I'll mess with the sound board as I've never done that and don't know that I have the patch cable or balls to risk over driving it wit no good way of preview). I do have Sony's shotgun mic that fits in that "smart" shoe. Would that be a smart move considering it's a live show? Again, I've never used it but I think the quality is on par with the built in save the different pick up pattern.

The two Canons will roam with light weight tripods or heavy monopods doubling as steadycams.

I have Vegas7e so I'm planning on buying AVCHD Upshift to convert all the Canon video. Then I just planned to simply sync the 3 tracks with the 2 Canon takes on top. Then start cutting away the bits I don't want. I can imagine this getting quite tedious and that's why people invented these multicam plugins.

Should I even try to do it manually?
I don't plan on making a habit of multi camera shoots. Are there any free multicam plug ins worth using?
Which of the multicam plugins are recommended?

Lots of questions...

jetdv wrote on 2/5/2009, 6:17 AM

If you're using Vegas Pro 8, you can use the built-in multi-cam.

While you can do it manually, it sure is much easier using one of the multi-cam options available in either Vegas Pro 8 or one of the scripting options. Remember that the script options have trial periods too.

JackW wrote on 2/5/2009, 10:36 AM

Jim H: To save yourself a lot of grief trying to sync the three camera tapes in edit, start all three at the top of the show and run them continuously, even when you're moving around the venue and don't actually have a shot. This way you'll only have to re-sync when you change tapes.

Also, if you run a 63 minute tape in one camera and an 83 minute tape in the other you won't be changing tapes at the same time.

Jack

rs170a wrote on 2/5/2009, 10:53 AM

...start all three at the top of the show and run them continuously...

IMO, that's rule #1 when doing shoots like this.
The recent Multi Cam Editing thread reinforces this very important point.

Mike

Jim H wrote on 2/5/2009, 1:21 PM

Jack, Mike,
Rolling all three cams full time is definitely one rule I came away with on our one and only other multicam shoot and that was only two cameras... needless to say we did NOT follow that rule...luckily I didn't have to edit that one and luckily my buddy reminded me of that rule for tomorrow's show.

Ed,
What sort of trial periods do the two main scripting options offer? Can I actually complete an entire project before I decide which to buy? EDIT: Just checked Excalibur and noted that 15 days full functions... that works. Is Excalibur's docking function limited to Vegas8? I think I remember reading it is limited to V8 with Ult-S.

jetdv wrote on 2/5/2009, 1:56 PM

Yeah, Excalibur is 15 days. I believe Ultimate S is the same.

Only Vegas Pro 8 supports docking. That was one of the new features in Vegas Pro 8.

rs170a wrote on 2/5/2009, 4:15 PM

...we did NOT follow that rule...

I'm glad to see that you learned your lesson :-)
Just a reminder that Digital Juice currently has Excalibur on for 1/2 price.
This deal got me to break down and finally buy the program.
Edward's excellent support is a definite bonus :-)

Mike

richard-amirault wrote on 2/5/2009, 7:40 PM

Also, if you run a 63 minute tape in one camera and an 83 minute tape in the other you won't be changing tapes at the same time.

Yes, but won't you need to re-sync twice as often?

PeterWright wrote on 2/5/2009, 7:50 PM

The need to re-synch is often mentioned as if it's like solving Rubrik's cube.

It's often a 30 second job, particlularly if you already know approximately where the stop/start points are - 63 mins, 83 mins etc.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 2/6/2009, 5:47 AM

Hi,

If your cams are not genlocked (normally avail only in pro equipment) - there is still DRIFT you have to take in consideration.

Cams are clocked by crystal oscillators that typically have a worst case +-100ppm (parts per million) frequency offset.

Shooting 60 minutes (at 30fps) - without stopping - would cause:

60*60*30*100/1000000*2= 21.6 frames drift (worst case)

So beware - syncing two cams at the beginning of a shoot is ok - but check carefully your sync at the end of the tape(s), you will have typically always a few frames offset, but even up to 21.6 frames - worst case. If and when you need an absolute sync, you must resync at suitable points in time during the one hour period.

To be able to do this with one frame precision I normally bring with me a very small portable xenon-flash (for photo use), that I manually fire during convenient non-disturbing passages (preferably moments in time that will be later discarded). For the audience it looks only as someone is taking a picture, but for me its the tool for easy resync.

The light travels at such speed that all cams record this flash exactly at the same time, independent of the location in a large auditorium. Using this technique I never fear turning off a cam during idle passages to save both tape AND power, as long as I fire my flash when all cams are again rolling. I take no credit for this technique, but it works like a charm!!! Recommended warmly for all multicam shooters.

Syncing using audio envelopes is only good for rough syncing, if you have more than 11meters (36 ft) between two cams, you are already one frame off...Sound waves travel quite slowly...

Christian