Multiple Camera Angles

QueenGeek wrote on 10/28/2006, 6:21 AM
Hey all,

I've started playing with multiple cameras and really like the effects I'm getting when I weave it together in Vegas. I've got no problems synching the video streams (phew!) BUT, since I have two very different cameras, the quality of the second camera is, well, inadequate at best (that's putting it nicely). I just cannot find a way to compensate in Vegas, and honestly, I cannot expect Vegas to work total miracles on bad source video.

So, that leaves me with the source cameras... My primary is a Canon GL-2. I absolutely LOVE it. My older camera is a Sony TRV-530. I cannot afford to pick up another GL-2, especially since I'd really like to pick up 2-3 more cameras to have up to 4 angles, rather than just two. Does anyone have any suggestions for additional 3CCD cameras that could provide secondary or tertiary angles? I'm looking for cost effective solutions that provide reasonable footage, even if not quite as good as the GL-2.

Comments

Jeff Waters wrote on 10/28/2006, 6:50 AM
I recently went through a similar struggle. You can use the color correction tools in Vegas to limit the differences between your two cams... but for me, that was very difficult and time consuming. I was never able to get a perfect match.

I was using a Sony TRV-950 3ccd cam and a cheap 1 chip consumer Panasonic.

I thought hard about getting a Sony VX2100 and then fell into this whole discussion of all the new hi-def cams available.

Ultimately, I decided to wait until more hi-def cams and (more importantly) consumer hi-def DVD players come on the market before spending the big bucks. I just went to ebay and picked up a 2nd used TRV-950 for about $1,000. My shoot went great and I was careful to set both cams to all the same settings. I'm in the process of editing in Vegas now and basically have no color correction to do!

So, if I were you, I'd get a used GL-2 on ebay. The other benefit is you'll have nothing new to learn if you already know your GL-2.

I ended up buying my 950 from Electronixmax, an ebay reseller. I was a little scared of buying anything on ebay, but they were close by in CT so I figured I could drive over and beat someone up if there was a problem. Also, they have a 14 day warranty on all cams. Gotta say they do due dilligence in checking out the cams before selling them. They accidentally left a tape in the cam I got. I watched the tape and it had footage of the guy going through a thorough checklist checking out every feature.

http://search.stores.ebay.com/ElectronixMax_GL-2_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZElectronixMaxQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftsZ2QQsaselZ85065418QQsatitleZGLQ2d2QQsofpZ0

I plan to spend around $6k/cam for 2-3 brand new cams when I make the complete jump into hi-def... so for me, this was a dirt cheap temporary option.

Best,
Jeff
QueenGeek wrote on 10/28/2006, 12:50 PM
I think we're in the same boat. Eventually I want to upgrade everything to HD. Already there with the TVs and Vegas. The cameras are next... I checked out eBay. The used prices aren't all that great considering you can get a new GL2 with full warranty after rebate for $1750-$1850. Most used ones are running around $1300-1500. I found one as low as $750, but from an unknown (new) seller. I just can't take that chance with that kind of money. Ideally I'd just pick up two more new GL2s now, but with HD cameras out now... I'm saving my $$$ for that.
Jeff Waters wrote on 10/28/2006, 2:32 PM
Yes,
I think I was lucky in that the TRV950 isn't sold new anymore. I'd get a new GL2 if I were in your shoes. It's still a great 3 chip cam and I think you'll be able to sell it for at least half when your ready to move into HD. Think about it... there will still be a market for that for some time to come. Until the internet can be delivered at much higher bandwidth, there will be a place for great 3chip SD cams for folks who just want to deliver web content videos.

Not sure what you are shooting... but in my experience, moving to 3 cams in a shoot was more intense than moving to 2 cams. Lot more to keep track of simultaneously if you are in charge of all the cams.

In fact, I went back to 2 cams on my recent shoot. In my case, it was better to put really good thought into the framing and action with 2 cams. I think it's probably a good idea to get rock solid with 2 before adding a 3rd.

Jeff
QueenGeek wrote on 10/28/2006, 3:49 PM
Jeff - thanks for the advice. I've just started with the 2 camera thing, so yeah, I need to master that first. I'm a somewhat serious hobbiest. I've never gotten paid for the work, nor have I asked to be paid. I just love doing it, and I get lots of compliments. Someday when I retire from my day job, I might think about doing this to earn some extra $$$. In the mean time, I'm having fun. :)

I do mostly sports highlights videos, recitals, family events, etc for the relatives. I just did my brother's wedding - hence the two cameras. I mixed the two camera angles with a series of panning stills, plus jump backs to pre-ceremony events to fill the inevitable delays you get at these things. It came out very well, except that the second camera got really grainy as the evening wore on. It actually does pretty well shooting outdoors in good lighting. But there is a stark difference in the quality going between the two cameras, as one might expect!

I also do all the sermon taping at our church. From a video perspective, that's been pretty boring - just set the camera and go, but then you don't want to do anything distracting either. I was thinking that two cameras there might help a bit.

So yeah, I'm thinking about a second GL2 now... the $250 rebate expires in January, so I can think about it for a short while at least.
riredale wrote on 10/28/2006, 3:56 PM
EBay is WONDERFUL! I have bought many, many things on it and have only had two negative experiences, both successfully resolved. I've bought a VX2000 and my current FX1 on it, along with wide-angle lenses, Minidisc recorders, printers, microphones, and cases.

A couple of suggestions:

(1) Bid only on items offered by people with an overwhelmingly positive track record, and with more than a couple of feedbacks under their belt. The feedback system works.

(2) If you really want to get some deals, get a sniping program. I strongly recommend "AuctionSentry." You can download a 10-day trial for free, and if you like it the program is cheap. "Sniping" means the program watches the auction for you, and has your maximum bid in mind. If, in the last few seconds, the current price is less than your max bid, it will jump in and incrementally increase the bid, hopefully before anyone else can react. Nothing wrong or illegal about it, you're just "in the right place at the right time." More often than not the bid price will go higher than you're willing to pay, fine. But other times you'll be the winner at a price maybe 1/2 of 2/3 of the market value of the item.
DavidSinger wrote on 10/28/2006, 4:16 PM
Sports? Weddings? Think Picture-In-Picture and use the lesser cam to shoot for the PIP. Here's the payoff = hold the lesser cam turned on its side counterclockwise. When you put that cam's footage on the timeline, make a one-time rotate 90deg counterclockwise of the footage and presto you have a pretty darned-high resolution PIP!

Now you can put in *several* flashbacks or cut-aways simulaneously, even running over the master footage. This way you can use "bland" masterfootage that contains the only shot with (Uncle George or Your Kid's Best Buddy) that you have without feeling like a total twerp for the bland footage, but not feeling like an idiot for failing to include (Uncle George or Your Kid's Best Buddy) in the final product.

Also, a PIP doesn't demand the same "matching" that an audience expects when you inter-cut full-frame video. In fact in sports it *helps* to have a somewhat different look to accentuate the notion that the PIP is special.

Use this same trick with your GL-2 later when you get a HDV camera.
QueenGeek wrote on 10/28/2006, 8:30 PM
Cool idea. I'm definitely going to have to try this out! :)