The problem with that thread is that it relates more to ancilary audio in weddings. I'm talking about taking the actual ditigal audio and putting it on an audio track in the video timeline. The two situations are very different. I'm using the music for photo montages, and direct feed in videos.

And for the record I'm in the US. A lot of people in that discussion, and related discussions, seem to talk mainly about Australia because of its laid back approach to this subject.

Either way though, no one who REALLY knows the laws has posted saying this is what they do. And no lawyers have posted official terms of use for music. The general feel I get though from reading all the comments is that the big companies aren't going to come after someone small like me if I do use the music without licensing it.

This topic comes up so much that it should probably be a sticky in this forum. (hint hint),

Do a search in this forum is a number one suggestion.

Direct short answers -

Is it legal?
Only if you have all the paperwork in place.

What kind of laws are there regarding this?
See link(s) below.

Are there fees involved?
Depends on what route you take, what the end product is and who you are dealing with.

Or are you free to use someone's music as long as you credit them?
First define "free". It may have been free to use but chances are if you are selling a final product (And it sounds like you are) unless you are using royalty free music it will not be "free".

Next, here are some links that will help:

ASCAP licensing FAQ.

BMI licensing info.

SESAC licensing page.

Bug Music licensing request page.

Fair Use FAQ from the U.S. Copyright Office.

>>>no one who REALLY knows the laws has posted saying this is what they do. And no lawyers have posted official terms of use for music<<<

You have not really read too many threads on the topic have you?

omg... spare me the "search before you post noob!" replies. I searched for what I thought the keywords would be, but not knowing anything about the subject I was searching for the wrong thing. I read all the posts in the thread you linked to, and all the posts in the thread that one linked to. No, I didn't get a clear answer from those threads, I'm sorry. Yes, this topic certainly should be a sticky. Don't fault me because I'm asking a simple question. Without knowing what terms to search for, the search function is useless. And this is a forum, people are supposed to ask questions in forums. Even in forums I moderate I don't get mad at people who has a question that has been asked a thousand times. I either give them an answer or link them to a previous thread, but I never yell at people to use the search function. Again I come back to the fact that all those people were talking about ancilary audio getting picked up by a camcorder at a wedding. I didn't see anyone direct this exact situation.

That being said, thank you very much for the links, they'll come in very handy. There should be a sticky with those links and the title of the thread should be "Legally using music in your videos".

And yes, I do intend to sell the videos I make. And I'd like to stay out of trouble if at all possible.

This is probably the most asked OT topic in this forum. Search on "copyright" or "music" in the subject heading only. There are probably 50 or more posts in the past year alone.

1. It is not legal.
2. You need to obtain a "sync" license.
3. However, you will never get a "sync" license.
4. You therefore either need to keep what you're doing and break the law, or compose your own music.

You can look over at VASST for more info. Also, Google Douglas Spotted Eagle. It will lead you to many, many posts and articles, including this one: Copyright Caveats

P.S. You won't get many responses from people by telling them to "omg... spare me the "search before you post noob!" replies. This is one of the most professional forums you'll ever read, but if you tweak people like that ... well ... they're only human ...

If you read further in the thread I pointed you to, you will see that it does cover more than the initial question posed in that thread. I think if you read on, it would answer your question.

In short, it is illegal and immoral to use copyrighted music without permission and it is illegal and immoral to sell copyrighted music without permission.

j razz

Quote: In short, it is illegal and immoral to use copyrighted music without permission and it is illegal and immoral to sell copyrighted music without permission.

I just have to say, that illegal and immoral are a little different. I would say it's illegal to speed, but not immoral. I'd say it's illegal AND immoral to rape someone.

And for the record, I would say it's illegal to sell copyrighted material, but not immoral, but maybe that's just me.

And I personally use copyrighted material in my personal videos, but I don't sell them. Legal or not, I'm not worried about the music mafia coming after me, and I don't feel immoral doing it.

Hope I didn't get too much off topic, but couldn't help myself.. must click reply...

:)

Edit: and I didn't wanna hijack this thread with a moral or not debate, just felt compelled to reply earlier.

It IS illegal. That is something that can be measured against exquisitely described standards.

Immoral? I don't know. Morality (at least in the U.S.) changed dramatically, starting in the cultural revolutions of the 1960s, and is continuing to change at a rapid pace. Ask 100 under-25 "kids" whether downloading MP3s is immoral. You might be shocked at the response. Morality was defined for many centuries, mostly by religion. That connection has eroded in my lifetime, and therefore morality has changed. Therefore, measured against "contemporary community standards," a phrase often invoked, I am not sure the actions you define as immoral would generally be considered as such.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that it is right. I'm just pointing out that "morality" is no longer a "touchstone" that you can consider a fixed, absolute, unmovable bedrock upon which you can rely for guidance.

In short, it is illegal and immoral to use copyrighted music without permission and it is illegal and immoral to sell copyrighted music without permission.

I'd submit this is so for any creative media format. Video, music, photographs... Just that it's harder to catch these days, unless someone happens to be watching you closely.
I can't comment on "moral" but I'd suggest it's unethical. Morals are decided by individuals, so what is moral to me may not be moral to you. Ethics....well...there are some great comments on ethics here.

But if you do get caught and the owner decides to press it....You're liable for a lot more than just the value of the creative license. Now, copyright violation is a criminal act as well as a civil one.

This issue continues to come up, not so much because the law is unclear, but because individuals are seeking loopholes or feel that if they can get a consensus in their favor, they can morally procede to break they law (one cannot legally break the law).

The solution is so simple. Buy music licensed for your purpose. They're hundreds of great, affordable production libraries available. Make a great video using licensed music and sleep good at night.

Simple answer is it is illegal without the proper compensation to the "owners".

I also think theft is immoral.

Wikipedia on Morality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immoral

The solution is so simple. Buy music licensed for your purpose. They're hundreds of great, affordable production libraries available. Make a great video using licensed music and sleep good at night.

That is the correct solution to get a good sleep. The problem is that it won't pay the bills, because many clients insist on using certain music. More important, the music you capture when you film their wedding, shoot the dance concert, etc. is also covered by these same licenses. All of these require the same license as the music you add after the fact. Unless you scrub the audio track, you will violate the law.

There may be some people looking for a loophole, but most of the people on this forum are pros, and they would gladly pay a reasonable licensing fee and pass this onto their clients. It will take a corporation like Apple to push the music industry to do this. Absent that, we will all be in this uncomfortable position.

So since so many have replied to this now, I'll ask this, what does the majority of people do? What if I'm just making a video for my friend's kid and she happens to pay me some cash? What if I'm not a registered business yet? I can tell you this, I wouldn't have any problems if someone put some of my music in their video as long as they gave me credit so people knew who it was.

It might just come down to me making my own music for these videos. It would be the cheapest and easiest way for me not to have to worry about any of this stupid garbage, plus I'd be getting my own music out there. It's just so much easier to grab a song from a disk... grr.