My first HD project in V10! How do I get to DVD?

musicvid10 wrote on 12/11/2011, 8:07 PM

Use the DVDA templates for your MPEG-2 video, and the DVD templates for your Dolby AC3 audio. Keep in mind that you going to lose 85% of your video data in the downscaling.

Curt wrote on 12/11/2011, 8:33 PM

Which DVDA template should I use in this case? The choices are as follows:
NTSC video stream
NTSC widescreen video stream
NTSC 24p video stream
NTSC 24p widescreen video stream

Would I actually be better off converting these files to standard def AVI files?

In the future, if I know the project is going to DVD should I just shoot accordingly and skip the whole HD thing?

musicvid10 wrote on 12/11/2011, 8:37 PM

The video template that matches your source aspect is "NTSC widescreen video stream"
There is no advantage to rendering AVI because DVD is MPEG-2. Why render twice when you only need to do it once?
There are hundreds of posts about HD->DVD (do a search), but if you shoot SD you are limited to SD. That means you couldn't produce a BluRay, for instance.

Curt wrote on 12/11/2011, 8:58 PM

What I meant was converting the raw video files to AVI for editing purposes, but as you say, that's probably unnecessary as long as the machine can handle existing files.

Once the editing is done, I should then render to MPEG-2 NTSC widescreen.

I'm not too worried about Blu Ray at this stage. I don't have the necessary burner anyway, and the clients in this case are not asking for it.

PeterWright wrote on 12/11/2011, 9:57 PM

Stay in HD for editing - if you're going out to DVD it gives you the ability to reframe, and even to zoom in almost 5 times without losing resolution - can come in very handy now and then.

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 12/11/2011, 11:48 PM

Philip Hodgetts book (The HD Survival Handbook) suggests that if your final is standard DVD then render to 1280x720p which can be converted to 720x576 wide (PAR 1.4568) very easily. The benifit of this is that you'll have an HD copy just in case the customer wants it later since DVD players are being replaced by media players.

1. Film in 1920x1080
2. Vegas template "HDV 720-25p (1280x720, 25.000 fps)"
3. Then using DVD-A to make your DVD
4. Copy your rendered movie to your media player and backup drive.

HyperMedia wrote on 12/12/2011, 9:24 AM

I would go the way of LightAds....

1. Film in 1920x1080
2. Vegas template "HDV 720-25p (1280x720, 25.000 fps)"
3. Then using DVD-A to make your DVD
4. Copy your rendered movie to your media player and backup drive.

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 9:44 AM

Thanks.

I can say with absolute certainty that in this case the customer will not be coming back later for an HD copy of the material, so would it make things move a bit faster to render at a lower resolution (i.e. 720x576)?

Gary James wrote on 12/12/2011, 1:10 PM

The DVD spec for NTSC calls for MPEG video and either compressed (Dolby) audio or uncompressed PCM audio. PAL DVDs can use MP3 audio, but most do not.

If you are using DVD Architect to author your DVD, you can give it any format audio / video source files. But when it renders the muxed .vob files, it first converts the source audio and video to MPEG video and Dolby audio. So you are ahead in the process if you render your Vegas project for widescreen NTSC video with an included Dolby audio track.

If you are using some other DVD authoring program, you may want to render your Vegas project as both a widescreen NTSC video ONLY file; and a separate AC3 Dolby audio only file. Some authoring programs require a separate audio and video source file be supplied by the user.

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:03 PM

Using DVDA for authoring.

So I should render the finished videos as NTSC widescreen?

amendegw wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:16 PM

"1. Film in 1920x1080Interesting concept. Has anyone else noticed the OP 1080i was 60i and step 2) should probably be be a customized template set to 23.976 fps.

Second, if there's significant motion in the original video, the transition from the original 59.94 fields pre second to 23.976 progressive could result in stutter.

...Jerry

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:18 PM

In the meantime, I've been browsing the forum and I'm quite honestly discouraged by what I'm reading.

It seems I seriously shot myself in the foot shooting this project in AVHDC. (Not like I had a choice. That's what the cameras I used do.) That, and shooting it in full 1920x1080 HD when all I needed was standard definition.

Editing this thing in HD is proving to be a disaster. I didn't even attempt it on my usual machine, since that's a P4 antique. The only faster machine I could get my hands on is a Pentium Dual Core with 4G RAM. That can play back ONE track of video fine, but when I add the other track (cutting back and forth between two camera angles) playback goes to hell.

At this point, I'm back to thinking I should just convert everything to SD for editing so I can actually get this thing done. My deadline WAS Saturday, but that's unlikely at this point.

amendegw wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:24 PM

Curt,

There lots of "issues" in going from 1080i to SD for DVD. And, many folks have made signicant improvements in the results by using tools outside Sony Vegas.

However, before you abandon your project, why not give the following "quick and dirty" method a try?

Good Luck!
...Jerry

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:34 PM

Thanks, Jerry.

That helps as far as the final render goes. But right now, I having trouble just getting playback to happen well enough to edit it.

paul_w wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:37 PM

Curt, sounds like your computer is underpowered for HD footage? Are you saying you need to edit with SD footage so you can get the job done?

Paul.

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:42 PM

Paul, that's exactly what it sounds like. I'm kicking myself for shooting it in full HD.

So, yeah, I guess I need to edit it in SD to get it done. I've tried just about everything I can think to try in order to maintain HD through the editing process, but a dual core just isn't cutting it.

amendegw wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:49 PM

Curt,

johnmeyer has some excellent recommendations that may help you. Click here: Four Rules for faster preview

...Jerry

paul_w wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:52 PM

Ok let me just throw some ideas at you and you can see if anything helps.
Make sure your Preview display is set to "Preview Auto" and not Good or Best, does that help.
Make the preview window small i size, not full screen on a second monitor.
Disable external monitoring if any.
If you are using Vegas 11 (sorry i dont know), check the GPU setting is on for your card.
If all still fails and you cannot simply change to a more powerful PC, you may have to transcode all your footage to an intermediate type like MXF. Vegas works faster with this.

Edit note: worst case, you need to down convert (down res) all the clips down to SD before editing in Vegas.

Paul.

paul_w wrote on 12/12/2011, 2:53 PM

Ha Jerry, posting at the same time here. :) Good advice.

Paul.

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 3:02 PM

Paul:

Bumping the preview window down to "Preview Auto" seems to help. It's mushy as heck, but at least I can edit. I'm also keeping the window fairly small (no external monitor).

I fooled around with down converting everything to SD avi, but that will take hours and hours to do (six clips, all about 48 minutes long!)

Soldiering on!

paul_w wrote on 12/12/2011, 3:08 PM

Yep, its a trade off but at least you should be able to work.
Dont forget you can use Shift + B to check parts of your timeline and you should get full playback speed for that selected region. Check your Preview RAM setting in Vegas prefs for that. The more you select, the longer you can preview in the region just dont overdo it.

Also, as Jerry posted above, please do read that advice too, got some good points in there.

Paul.

Curt wrote on 12/12/2011, 3:16 PM

I'm still a bit confused on one point, the point of project properties. Should I have the project properties match the media (in this case mts files), or should I set them for the settings of the final render? Setting them to match media seems to offer smoother playback and a better preview picture. But then, what about the final render? Can I leave the project set for the mts files and then tell it to render using the template for DVDA NTSC widescreen?

paul_w wrote on 12/12/2011, 3:23 PM

Always set Match Media in project properties (top right icon) to the source file. Yes, thats your MTS. Just pick any one of them, then click apply.
Rendering out is a different matter and you render out to DVD scale, not the source size. In other words, its converted down during rendering using the renderers' own settings.

Paul.

amendegw wrote on 12/12/2011, 3:27 PM

Yes, set your Project Properties using the "Match Media Settings" wizard. Then make sure you have set a "Deinterlace Method" (either Blend or Interpolate) and your "Full Resolution Rendering Quality=Best". Once you've done that, don't change it for your render - Vegas will take care of all the resizing, field order changes, etc.

...Jerry