My New Big Honkin' Camera just showed up

farss wrote on 2/6/2012, 10:03 PM

"Probably not very rewarding or relaxing for the animal if your intention is to kill it."

True enough. I think the point I was hoping to get at was that if you want to get good wildlife footage then a lesson or two from a good hunter is not a bad starting point.

My total kill is one rabbit and one kangeroo and that was 40 years ago.
To me hunting is a great sport ruined by the need to kill something. That's just a personal thing and I do not judge those who truly hunt. I've cut a few hunting videos and I've been very impressed by the ethics of the hunters, it just isn't something I can bring myself to do and feel good about. I do shoot but only to put 9mm holes in a piece of paper and my handgun has never left the range's armoury.

That said Australia does have a big problem with introduced animals, the worst two being pigs and cane toads. The rabbits and foxes kind of take care of each other and the rabbits provide food for our raptors. Wild goats, horses, donkeys and camels are manageable. About the only way to control pigs is with a bullet or arrow and the cane toads are a nightmare and spreading. Huge tracts of this country are now devoid of native animals thanks to them and they are still spreading.

Bob.

ushere wrote on 2/6/2012, 10:23 PM

bob, pop up my way for a weekend....

foxes (we've lost countless chooks to them), pigs rooting up everything in national parks, rabbits ring-barking everything in sight (not so much now they released the calesie(?) virus), goats, deer, donkeys, what have you.

i only kill what i will eat (heard that before!), but gave up guns after the army. i use a catapult nowadays with some degree of accuracy. (would prefer a cross-bow, but they're illegal in nsw).

but nothing comes close to the 20x on my z5 ;-)

Rory Cooper wrote on 2/7/2012, 2:17 AM

Jerry very cool.

If you are going to film wildlife

1.go on your own = quite.
2.take a small mp3 player with animal calls that you intend to film ie bird calls animal grunts etc = they find you = much quicker this way.
3.apropriate animal food = keep them in the shot.
4.animal toys = keep them preoccupied.
5. keep as low as you can.

Jerry If you had a bit of gut with a fluffy ball and you were pulling this you would have got some amazing fox shots when animals get into that hunt mode they switch off to everything else and you can get in really close and keep low = eye to eye level is always the best shot when you can get it.

If you want to film wild lions real zebras will prevent you from over exposure and bleeding all over your camera.

farss wrote on 2/7/2012, 4:32 AM

"If you want to film wild lions real zebras will prevent you from over exposure and bleeding all over your camera."

Probably the best line posted in this forum, ever.

Bob.

paul_w wrote on 2/7/2012, 4:33 AM

Jerry - ha! you got me again with your stabilization! That really looks like heat waves, maybe repackage this as a heat wave plugin effect :)
And then it dawned on me, you use high shutter speeds to get better stabilization too, Doh!
Guys, any chance of stop talking about shooting animals with guns, us vegies have a hard time reading stuff like that. Use a camera! (no offense).

Paul.

amendegw wrote on 2/7/2012, 5:04 AM

"If you want to film wild lions real zebras will prevent you from over exposure and bleeding all over your camera."Lions and Tigers and Zebras, oh my! I agree - great line!

...Jerry

btw: The ol' sausage in the pocket technique. I'll remember that one.

btw2: This park - the Bombay Hook National Wildlife Refuge is packed with still photogs (I haven't seen one other guy with a camcorder). Many of these guys have thingys that look like pillows that are placed on their automobile windows to stabilize their cameras. Anyone have any thoughts about how one of these might work with a camcorder?

paul_w wrote on 2/7/2012, 5:11 AM

Think they call them Bean Bags or sand bags, used in still photography. Handy things and cheap. Should be good for video stabilization too. Takes most of the hand shake away.

Paul.

farss wrote on 2/7/2012, 6:46 AM

"Many of these guys have thingys that look like pillows that are placed on their automobile windows to stabilize their cameras. Anyone have any thoughts about how one of these might work with a camcorder?"

The original Australian invention is the Cinesaddle. Not all that cheap, I think you can get it in two sizes.

It looks very simple but it is rather clever in a very Australian way. The bottom is loaded with shot to keep it stable. At a pinch you could try a sand bag or a bean bag. Digital Juice also sell a knock off that's cheaper than the original.

Bob.

amendegw wrote on 2/14/2012, 8:14 AM

Okay, trial number three in attempting to learn how to use this camera. My learning this time is... don't forget the external microphone with the dead cat even if you think that you're going to put the final footage to music (although my wife thought the wind noise added to the effect).

btw: I could have sworn I saw Tippi Hedren near the lake [chuckle]

...Jerry

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/14/2012, 8:59 AM

Whats up with the scene(s) of the Geese in the Field (:20 - :45) looking like they are 'strobing' or something? The other scenes also show it but it's not as apparent because of all the action going on.

Does anyone else notice that it kind of looks like heat is rising in front of the camera making the video 'worble' or as if it's being shot through a stream of water?

So far, I'm liking the size & buttons of the New Big Honkin' Camera but based on all the footage being shown in this thread, maybe it's just where you are still learning the AC,I am still feeling like the TM700 is the winner of the two cameras.

amendegw wrote on 2/14/2012, 11:51 AM

"Whats up with the scene(s) of the Geese in the Field (:20 - :45) looking like they are 'strobing' or something?"Strobing? The first couple scenes where at full (22x) zoom and the camera was resting on a pillow on my car window - still some shakiness in the image, so I stabilized it. There are some Mercalli V2 stabilization artifacts. The balance of the scenes were shot with a tripod. Read my earlier posts (particularly the one dated 2/6/2012 7:31:07 PM - this is explained).

This is the second time you've posted that you feel the TM700 produces better images than the AC130. You are entitled to your opinion, however I'm also entitled to disagree (and will ignore all future posts on that subject).

...Jerry

paul_w wrote on 2/14/2012, 12:42 PM

Looks good to me, cant see any strobing here. I see high shutter speed scenes like the last test Jerry, but we know thats for stabilisation purposes. Exposure looks good, Nice panning scene at the end with take off. Ah, the Heat wave effect hehehe... :)

Great.

Paul.

amendegw wrote on 2/14/2012, 1:03 PM

Paul, Thanks for the positive comments. This thread is about a new camera and testing its features and seeing what does and does not work. Several posts up, we brought up the subject of ("heat wave") stabilization and placing pillows on the window as a stabilizer. This is what I was testing in this short video. Edit: Another thing - the "heat wave" effect seems to be specific to shots that have lots of fine background detail such as the blades of grass behind the geese (and fox).

Bob (farss) also made the suggestion that this camera may have been meant for a tripod and that a tripod is a must (at least at the 22x zoom - my words). I think these tests are proving his theory.

In any case, the other item I was testing was using the DRS setting to reduce the blown whites/crushed blacks, and I'm quite pleased with those results.

...Jerry

PS: I also did some testing using manual focus to eliminate the focus wander with grass in front of the image. Although it is not in this video, that test also went well.

paul_w wrote on 2/14/2012, 1:25 PM

Well, i think using the camera this way - pillow rather than tripod method - i'd say this is probably about as good as you will get it. After that, its just post stuff, grading etc... but i understand thats not the purpose of this test.

I totally agree with Bob (farss), tripod? defo! Then you could go the correct shutter speed, 60th second, and adjust exposure using the cams internal NDs - thats exactly what they are for of course, to get in the ball park - then Gain or Aperture for finer adustment in your zebras. wow - listen to me... soundling like i know something about cameras!.. I have a lot of people to thank on here for that!

i am amazed how good the stabilised shots look considering its not on a tripod! wow. But something always has to give when you shoot this way right?

Paul.

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/14/2012, 3:25 PM

This is the second time you've posted that you feel the TM700 produces better images than the AC130.
- 86 posts later and the footage is still only marginally better, if even that.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I'm also entitled to disagree (and will ignore all future posts on that subject).
- You may ignore same as I may give my opinion in this PUBLIC forum. Judging by the 'Heat Wave' imagery you are displaying, it is either User or Camera. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by pointing finger at the Camera as I have never seen this 'Heat Wave' from the TM700.

It is with sincerity that I suggest maybe taking your OT/non-Vegas conversation to a place where you could get some useful information and help, such as: http://vimeo.com/groups/ac160/forumthread:251860 or the like.

People here have been trying to help you achieve the results you desire but it's blatantly apparent that you are not getting much better with the information you are receiving from this thread. It's probably because no one else here is experiencing the same problems or they are not shooting with that same camera therefore their general advice is not working.

Go where others are that may have a better understanding of what's going on. That's if you're truly seeking to correct the issue.
We don't go to FCP forums and ask for advice on Vegas

Stay here if you're just 'kickin it' and not really looking for a solution.

There is absolutely no way that I would ever deliver 'Heat Wave' footage to a client and seeing that it's been nearly a month since you've had this camera yet you're still 'Heat Waving' set off an alarm that your clients are receiving 'Heat Wave' footage.

Like I said, I love the big cameras and buttons yet based on your results I just don't see justifying the purchase over a less expensive camera that delivers parallel results. But heah, some people like driving Hummers.

paul_w wrote on 2/14/2012, 3:42 PM

@[r]Evolution , are you real? Did you read the posts? these are TESTS! 'heat wave' yes its a byproduct of stabilisation, get it? read posts before slamming. jeesss...

Paul.

amendegw wrote on 2/14/2012, 3:59 PM

Paul,

Thank you for your support. You know, [r]Evolution did make a valid point - I should have put an "OT:" in the title of this thread.

Sorry,
...Jerry

paul_w wrote on 2/14/2012, 4:19 PM

The OT thing is a valid point thats true, a simple mistake but it cannot be editied.
But that where those comments should end. i want SCS to set up the Ignore button once again.

Its a sad day on here when you cant even experiment with your equipment on this forum with comments like "but it's blatantly apparent that you are not getting much better".. thats just nonsense. I have been reading this thread from the start with others Im sure with interest to see how the images you get from the AC130 and your stabilisation technique improve, and they have.

I get a sinking feeling when various people on here post such negative, non constructive and down right arrogant comments like that. Very sad indeed.

... now im sorry.

Paul.

farss wrote on 2/14/2012, 5:10 PM

Jerry,
my biggest concern here is YOU don't seem to be learning.
The shots at the start, you should have waited until the sun went right down to avoid the long shadows. If you simply want to test the camera then use controlled setups such as charts and controlled lighting.
Using DRC in that scenario can cause nasty problems, you might have just been lucky that the highlights are white, if they had been peacocks the outcome could have been not good.

I know, I'm being harsh. It took me a very long time to learn some vital lessons. I also know some of us only learn by making their own mistakes. The thing with sound and vision is you can waste a lot of your own resources learning and then get very frustrated.

Bob.

amendegw wrote on 2/14/2012, 5:23 PM

"my biggest concern here is YOU don't seem to be learning.Bob, I can't believe you said that after the musicvid incident. Is there any way to interpret that that statement other than a personal attack?

...Jerry

farss wrote on 2/14/2012, 5:38 PM

"Is there any way to interpret that that statement other than a personal attack?"

Good grief, of course there is, read the rest of what I had to say.
Would I have used the word "concerned" if it was an attack ?

I'm trying to pass on hard leaned knowledge, sometimes it's a bit frustrating because we don't know if you're getting the message, choosing to ignore it or what.

Bob.

Jim H wrote on 2/14/2012, 5:47 PM

Thems a lot of quackers in that video. Looks real nice to me.

paul_w wrote on 2/14/2012, 5:53 PM

Just checking in case maybe i'm loosing my mind here (possible!), but, errrmm, all 4 of the nature videos get progressively better? Mainly in the exposure area. I see an improvement. Its not just staying the same or getting worse or anything... Do i need an eye check?

Peace
Paul.

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/14/2012, 7:31 PM

Yes! I am very serious.
Let's see if we can get this discussion to 100 posts and still NOT have fixed the problem.
- I agree wholeheartedly. The way you're doing it, there is no Control for Comparison.

As others here have noticed, that's why they've tried to help... your footage is only marginally better. I have tried to keep my discussion specific to the 'Heat Wave' as I know the variables in shooting the footage you're showing. That's why I'm saying IT'S EITHER YOU OR THE CAMERA OR THE WORKFLOW that's giving 'Heat Wave' which can be avoided.

My suggestion was to voice these concerns on a forum where others specifically know and discuss that camera and can lend their expertise to help. There may be some hidden menu item or button that they know of to magically fix the displayed footage as it is apparent that USE A TRIPOD - TURN OFF STABILIZATION - THE TM700 FOOTAGE IS JUST AS GOOD AT A LESSER PRICE POINT are not the things wanted to hear.

'Heat Wave' is NOT a byproduct of stabilization! It is NOT present in the TM700 footage nor is it there on any other camera package I've used, but it IS there in the AC130 footage displayed here for discussion. Then again, maybe it's simply operator or workflow error. To eliminate that I merely suggested taking the discussion to a forum where they know that camera. There's simply no way that I would let 'Heat Wave' footage go out the door for a month. I would be grateful if someone couldn't help me but pointed me in the direction of someone else that could, as I both enjoy giving and receiving referrals.

If you want to have a Private Discussion with someone here, eMail them, facebook them, call them. If you place a topic on an open forum expect to hear things from all sides including those that you do not want or did not expect.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm sincerely trying to help someone work out the kinks. 96 posts later, you still have 'Heat Wave'. I cannot tell you exactly what to do to get rid of it. Apparently no one else here can/has either, but I gave you a link where I bet they can.

You've received all the General Video Shooting Guidelines here yet the problem still remains. It's time to go from the Family Doctor to a Specialist to determine what's causing your rash.