... beacuase the NEO site says 8 bit NEO, ie what they call NEO HD only handles 1440 resolution. Their site implies if you need 1920 you need the 10-bit NEO HDV and that is what propted my question.

Ah. Got it. It's Neo driving the 10bit requirement, not the camera.

Rob

According to cineform, the latest Neo (HD, 2K...) only supports 8bit in Vegas(8bit 4:4:4). They used the older Video For Windows interface instead of going the native Vegas API route. Vegas still doesn't support DirectShow. I don't know who to blame for this, Sony or Cineform.
It appears Vegas does have an API that allow for > than 8bit per channel support, but don't know if it can be used for codecs.

If you are copying form the express cards, the video is 8bit anyway and looks pretty darn good.
If you want to capture via SDI using a Xena or BM card, then you can capture 10bit. I think, but am not sure..you can capture from a Xena card directly into Sonys' 10bit 4:2:2 codec that's part of V8Pro. Not as good as 10bit 4:4:4, but not bad either.

Still have questions myself on all this.

If you want to use Cineform DI for 1920 x1080 you must upgrade to NEO HD (which I have done). This will let you take the clips directly from the SxS cards without going through the Sony Clip Browser, which you may or may not see as an advantage. I prefer to work with minimal compression because my workflow tends to rendering cut sequences which are then assembled. While this nicely compartmentalizes control in my post production processes, it involves more generations than a carefully disciplined approach would require. However other people find the Cineform path unnecessary for achieving excellent results

Serena:
After being such a Cineform fan are you now saying that with the EX1's format that you no longer need Cineform at all, or are you saying 8-bit Cineform HDV plus the Sony utility is all you need?

Mike

She's saying that in order to capture 1920 x1080 you must upgrade to NEO HD because NEO HDV only captures HDV spec which is 1440 x 1080. Nothing to do with bits.

Being able to bypass sony's clip browser and 10 bits ( providing you have source material ) are additional advantages of upgrading to NEO HD

Correct, deusx. And if you output via HD-SDI you get 10 bits instead of 8, but this is really studio only.
As I said, I've upgraded to NEO HD and are happy with what I'm seeing with material recorded in HQ mode. I prefer working with the avi format rather than long GOP compression, but I know a significant contributor here has decided that the Cineform path doesn't offer them a significant advantage over just using the EX1 clips. I'm away from my editing systems so haven't any quantitative comparisons to offer.

Thanks guys - you have confirmed exactly what I thought. So now there is the question of whether the significant cost to upgrade Cineform would not be better spent on more powerful processing.

It really depends on what you're doing with your footage. Cineform certainly bring a lot to the table. They now supply a free cineform / dpx conversion utility. Given that Vegas can neither import nor export dpx that's got to be worth something.

Bob.

I don't use dpx and my time-lines and FX is simple so editing .m2ts with a quad is possible while the upgrade when I last checked is very expensive.

The upgrade to NEO HD is $299, which wouldn't buy me a processor upgrade. However if your post work is fairly limited then probably you don't need Cineform. The advantages stated are :
" CineForm's NEO delivers an online compressed Digital Intermediate workflow for HD post-production, whether your source is HDV, full-raster HD, or 2K. This means you never have to work with proxy files, and you never have to conform a project at completion - you're always working with full-resolution source material using the Visually Perfect™ CineForm Intermediate codec.

HDLink converts your source material into CineForm Intermediate files, with precision from 8-bit YUV to 12-bit RGB, which becomes your online Digital Master throughout your post workflow. The lightly compressed CineForm Intermediate files offer fidelity that is visually equivalent to uncompressed sources, even through a multi-generation workflow. This means they provide excellent sources for compositing, keying, and animation. But the smaller file sizes allow managing an online workflow to be straightforward with virtually all standard post-production tools. Because CineForm Intermediate files offer the option of either .AVI or QuickTime movie (.MOV) wrappers, you have a wide choice of non-linear editing and compositing tools (Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Sony, others) on both Windows and Mac OS X throughout post production."

I agree Serena, but if I add the $299 to what I already paid for the basic version It will have cost me more than buying Vegas and DVDA! That just doesnt seem right for something I think Vegas should contain anyway.

>>That just doesnt seem right for something I think Vegas should contain anyway.<<

I don't think any NLE contains that, otherwise Cineform would be out of business ( or on a long vacation enjoying all the cash from licensing agreements with Sony, Apple, AVID, Adobe )