Need Flatbed Scanner Recommendation

InterceptPoint wrote on 10/18/2003, 9:49 PM
I just bought a Minolta DiMAGE Scan Dual III for 35mm negative and slide scanning. Works great and I am very satisfied. The quality is probably overkill for my Vegas projects but I am likely to print some of them so I like the high resolution that I get from the Minolta.

I am now looking for a flatbed scanner that can scan multiple 35mm negative strips (4 shots per strip in my case) to generate the equivalent of a contact sheet. The Dual III will scan one strip pretty quickly but it would be nice to have a scanner that would give me modest quality for a 4-7 strip scan.

Are there any affordable scanners on the market that will do this job?

Also - does anyone know if pure Isopropyl alcohol is the best cleaning solution for slides and negatives.

Comments

jsteehl wrote on 10/18/2003, 10:45 PM
Absolutely! Just picked up the Epson 2400. Knocked my socks off (but I'm just a pro-sumer :).

Will handle 4 strip negs.

Retail around $179 but I saw it as Office Depot for $152. Plus there is a $30 rebate!

Good Luck!

-Jason
InterceptPoint wrote on 10/19/2003, 12:11 AM
jsteehl :

Thanks for the input. The 2400 does look like a good choice. There have been some reports of problems with outputing scans directly to a printer. This is a very nice feature and I need it to work properly.

Have you tried scanning directly to your printer yet and did it work?

Grazie wrote on 10/19/2003, 1:42 AM
Epson 1250 Perfection here. No problems with printer connections and knockout scanning. HOWEVER! I've had some troubles with the drivers - I guess. I only use the scanner with VEGAS when I need to. Otherwise I leave it's USB link unplugged. Aint clever enough to rectify it. GUI front end gets time to make sense of. There are some "backwards" and forwards logic as to how you use the Epson front end. But, on the whole, it is a terrific little scanner. PLUS, it comes with a 35mm tranni shoe. You can take positive slides and scan them. You can also reverse out colour negs. Useful for those times when the 6x4 photo has gone walkabout! The backlight in the 35mm shoe will not illuminate truly "dark" images. - Oh yes! I've noticed some quality scan reduction coming into VEGAS. This could be user error ;-). When I now want to get a very good scan into V4 I go via MS Photodraw. I could use PsP - still finding PsP a bit "lumpy" to use.

So.... this is about the Epson Perfection 1250. The later models, which I guess you'll be purchasing, could have had my comments ironed out by now.

Hope this helps,

Grazie
musicvid10 wrote on 10/19/2003, 2:55 AM
No experience with that scanner, but some general tips for negs: only scan in 48-bit color, don't let the scanner do the reversal or set levels; they're better done in Photoshop where you have some measure of control. Don't expect great results from dense negs with any scanner.

For cleaning negs, denatured ethyl alcohol is preferable to rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol. The labs use trichlorethylene, but you have to be extremely careful of skin contact and fumes, NOT recommended for home use. Immersion in warm (100 degree F.) filtered water and a drop of wetting agent (Photo-flo) is used for thorough cleaning.
InterceptPoint wrote on 10/19/2003, 7:38 AM
musicvid:

I looked up Kodak's recommendation. You are right about the TCE, it is the best but it's use is being discouraged. Kodak is now recommending 98% or better isopropal alcohol as a replacement. I can tell you from experience that drug store (Rite-Aid) 70% ethyl alcohol will destroy a 35mm slide. This could be due to the "other ingredients" that include acetone. Pure ethyl alcohol may not have that problem but I am going to go with Kodak's recommendation and buy some high purity isopropal from a local chemical dealer.
johnmeyer wrote on 10/19/2003, 10:55 AM
If you are going to do lots of negative scans, you might consider a dedicated slide scanner, like one of the Nikon units. They are not as fast as a flatbed, but the quality is better and they have "Digital ICE" technology that does a remarkable job of removing surface defects (like scratches) that cleaning doesn't remove, and also diminishes or eliminates any dust or dirt not removed by the cleaning procedures recommended in earlier posts.
DRF wrote on 10/20/2003, 8:53 AM
Have you used this for slides? I have a Christmas project I'm getting ready to do for the in-laws that will have a couple hundred slides in it.

I'm looking for a a scanner that I can scan in the slides and then do some pan and zoom in V4.

This is a Christmas present, so I'm trying to keep my costs down since I'll have a lot of time in it as well.

TIA

DRF
farss wrote on 10/20/2003, 9:15 AM
For cleaning use either isopropyl alcohol, just make certain its analytic or reagent or B.P. grade. Any of these willhave a very low level of dissolved solids. The stuff used as rubbing alcohol would be a no no, I doubt it will do any permanent damage, just leave a film on the negs.

Alternatively you can use 90% ethyl alcohol and distilled water, it's a bit cheaper. Tricloroethane is now no longer produced, can't remember the reason but if you do come accross some I'd give it a miss unless you have lots of ventilation.

InterceptPoint wrote on 10/20/2003, 11:08 AM
I've more or less decided on the $199 Epson 3170.

It doesn't look like I can get any kind of a scanner that will scan more than two 35mm negative strips at a time at a resonable price. Two strips is not enough of an advantage over my single strip, very good resolution Minolta Dimage Scan Dual III.

Remember, my goal was to find a way to do a quickie modest resolution full page of 35mm negative film strips as a contact sheet. This just doesn't look practical to me but I still need a good high resoltuion flatbed scanner. The 3170 looks like the best of the bunch for standard flatbed scanners in this price range.
JJKizak wrote on 10/20/2003, 11:14 AM
Having used triclo for about forty years I would be a bit shy on using it on slides as some plastics will dissolve.
I use an Epson 2450 with Silverfast and then reprocess in Photopaint 9
I scan in at 1200 dpi for zooming and cropping and can zoom about to 1/10th the size of the picture without any problem. The picture size is 5 megs and then I change the brightness, contrast, blue decay spots, color saturation, focus,color balance, software dirt removal, hue, gamma, until it looks ok on my LCD monitor. The pictures are converted to jpg and when on the V-4 timeline I use the script to change all of the aspects to fit 720 x 480 then change the brightness etc. to look good on the tv set. Sometimes very little correction is required but the darker pictures will get too pixelated if you boost up the brightness too much. Maybe 10 minutes time per picture if there is a lot of dirt. I will have to try some kind of solvent to reduce this dirt removal thing.

JJK
InterceptPoint wrote on 10/21/2003, 12:14 PM
JJKizak wrote: "...I use the script to change all of the aspects to fit 720 x 480 "

In a nutshell, how is this done? I know very little about scripting but would like to learn.

Also, jiust to close this thread off I did buy the Epson 3170 for flatbed scanning only and am quite pleased. Fast at the 1200 dpi that I am using and the resolution is great. Vegas zoom looks great.

And, I have located a source of 99.98% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning slides in Garden Grove CA. They won't ship but if there is anyone in the area that wants to buy Kodaks recommended slide cleaning solution it is inexpensive: 500ml ( lifetime supply for me) for $5.00. You have to make the case that you have a legit use for it but they will make the sale if you convince them that it is for cleaning slides.
DRF wrote on 10/21/2003, 12:59 PM
InterceptPoint,

Just curious, when you said "Vegas zoom looks great" are you referring to zooming in on slides that you've scanned?

If so, how far did you zoom in on them? Just wondering because this info could help with a large project I need to start soon.

Thanks!
DRF
InterceptPoint wrote on 10/21/2003, 6:08 PM
DRF:

I think johnmeyer is the expert here but I did run a test for you with a 1200 dpi image that was 2630 x 2054. This is, I believe, gross overkill for a Vegas application where the ultimate screen resolion is 72 dpi. I zoomed this photo to 1/10 the width and 1/10 the height or 1/100 the area and you don't see any pixelation on an NTCS TV. At this point you are seeing 120 dpi which is enough. That is way more than you would typically zoom in to say a head shot from a group photo. At this zoom level you are stil seeing the image quality and the TV resolution and not any scanning effects.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/21/2003, 11:17 PM
Last time I looked, you could still get trich under the name Carbo-Chlor
I'll check for sure, but I still don't recommend it for home use. Nasty stuff.
Denatured that contains acetone would be a definite no-no.
Depends on what they denature it with. Used tech grade for years with no probs.

Another tip: Never try to blow dust off of film with your mouth. The little micro-drops of spittle will crater the emulsion, leaving spots or rings in the print or scan.
DRF wrote on 10/22/2003, 8:06 AM
InterceptPoint,

Thanks for taking the time to do the test and reply back! Very helpful - that's what I was hoping to hear.

DRF
JJKizak wrote on 10/22/2003, 4:54 PM
The script is available at the sundance site or in Tsunami at the cow forum
by Gary K. You just push the button and if you have 1000 slides on the timeline they are all resized in a few seconds. Some repositioning is required if the picture is a vertical shot or you can pan it. Can't tell you how much time this saves.

JJK
lucman2 wrote on 9/28/2004, 5:29 PM
I just purchased the Epson 3170 Photo scanner and I have a question...is the flourecent lamp supposed to always stay illuminated while the power switch is turned on? Mine does but this doesn't seem normal.
farss wrote on 9/28/2004, 5:32 PM
They normally time out. They leave them on for a while to avoid the delay while it heats up. They would have a limited life so having it on all the time isn't good.

Bob.
RalphM wrote on 9/28/2004, 5:39 PM
I recently purchased an Epson 4870 Photo, and it can do four 35mm negative strips at a time. It's not cheap. There are two packagings which differ only in the included S/W. Street Prices are $450/400.

The unit has Digital Ice and does an amazingly good job on transparancies. the DI also works on prints, but not nearly as effectively (works on tears and bends, but not well on dust).

Check the review at

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%204870/page_1.htm
johnmeyer wrote on 9/28/2004, 6:39 PM
The lamp should turn off in 15-30 minutes. If not, something is wrong.
JL wrote on 9/28/2004, 6:42 PM
The scan lamp on my Epson 3170 shuts off after a few minutes of inactivity.

JL

lucman2 wrote on 9/28/2004, 7:09 PM
I guess I'll be sending this back...I've left it on for about 30 minutes without any activity and it still remained lit.
clearvu wrote on 9/28/2004, 7:41 PM
Just call Epson and ask.

I have the Epson Perfection 3170 PHOTO and it works great for scans. I had a 1,400 slide job to do and it worked just great.

As for the light staying on issue, I not sure at what point it will turn itself off. All I know is that it eventually does.

If you are concerned, just turn it off manually. That's what I do.
InterceptPoint wrote on 9/28/2004, 7:49 PM
Surprised to see my old thread come to life again. I've had my 3170 for several months now and am pleased as punch with it. I did have a little problem with the software not executing correctly and, amazingly, a very competent tech at Epson squared me away with an easy fix in less than 5 minutes.