Did you REALLY think a consumer camera is going to match your $5K camera in features?

Making fun of cheap cams for being, uh cheap, is just lame.

http://www.angryflower.com/aposter.html

Consume = eat.
We know what happens to anything we eat.

Bob.

Just curious, but why do NLE users need a LANC port on the camcorder? Once you've ingested the video into your NLE aren't you done using the camcorder? Digital video capture software controls the camcorder through the firewire port well enough for capturing and printing to tape. I can't see any need for running another control cable.

I use the LANC for tripod pan handle mounted zoom/focus like the bebob units.

Absolutely. The $150 Canon LANC zoom controller I bought for my Sony VX2000 is indispensable for me.

In contrast, my Sony PMW-EX1 has no LANC (It cannot by design). The zoom controllers for it cost 2-3 times as much and can't do what a LANC zoom can do for a fraction of the cost.

John

"In contrast, my Sony PMW-EX1 has no LANC (It cannot by design). The zoom controllers for it cost 2-3 times as much and can't do what a LANC zoom can do for a fraction of the cost."

And from what I read elsewhere depending on your luck getting a 'good' EX1/3 slow zooms can be quite jerky. The only solution to that and getting remote focus control ( which you need far more than remote zoom) is a set of rather expensive external motors and gears. In fact a really good set of external motors can set you back more than the EX1, sigh.

Bob.

... depending on your luck getting a 'good' EX1/3 slow zooms can be quite jerky.

Evidently, I am among the luckest camera operators in the world. I've not had any problems getting smooth slow zooms.

Although it is not musical, a camera is an instrument. Like all instruments, it takes practice to learn how to "play" competently. Those who think they simply take up a camera and use it expertly without any "experience" are only fooling themselves.

Practice aside Jay, I think the point about LANC is that it provides superior remote capabilities over non-LANC setups. You can't use a remote to focus an EX1. You can with even a cheap camera that has LANC.

John

"I've not had any problems getting smooth slow zooms. "

You've tried this with an EXTERNAL zoom controller Jay?

You see Sony admit it's a problem. Smooth zoom is not guaranteed under zoom speed settings of 10 using an external controller.

There are people out there with three EX3s, two work just fine, one doesn't. Perhaps an expert like you could show them what they and Sony are doing wrong.

Bob.

I wouldn't know how to act without having my left hand on the focus ring. Trying to zoom and focus with one hand on two little buttons would make me nuts. I have a LANC remote focus on the zoomer for my Z1U, but I've never tried it. In a studio environment with a controller on each pan handle... maybe (I could do that on my DSR 500). But otherwise it would make me nuts.

Bob, if by "EXTERNAL" you mean something like a Bebob, yes. I'm able to get a very slow crawl without any jerkiness.

Like I said, maybe I've just been lucky so far. Just as there are the occasional "lemons," evidently I got an even more rare "cherry"!

There are people out there with three EX3s, two work just fine, one doesn't. Perhaps an expert like you could show them what they and Sony are doing wrong.

You never miss the opportunity to behave like a jerk and get personal, do you, Bob?

"You never miss the opportunity to behave like a jerk and get personal, do you, Bob?"

I don't like continuing this kind of thing, but really Jay, who's getting personal here? I've generally appreciated your bluntness in the past, but this time you're wrong and Bob called you out.

I too have had a problem with the slow zoom on the EX3 using the zoom rocker, the handle toggle (which is not variable), and the Zoe-EX. When the zoom on an $8000 camera is not as reliable as the zoom on a $3000 camera like my FX1, it is a problem, especially when it happens on a shoot and the producer questions your professionalism (Oh, so you're going to blame it on the equipment?). The problem with the zoom freezing while using focus assist is also a real thorn in the side when in a run/gun situation. Otherwise, it is a fantastic cam, but just because you aren't experiencing the same issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and just because someone calls you out on being blunt and wrong doesn't make him a jerk. Some would say the same about you.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion just as I am. Bob struts around different forums as if he were all knowing; that his word is the final word. I'm here to tell you that isn't the case.

All I did was share my experience and observations. Bob can't just leave it at asking question(s) or asking for clarification. He has to make a personal attack and mouth off with smart aleck remarks. He was the one that made it personal, not me. No one has to put up with that kind of behavior. This is not first time this has happened. It's ongoing and has been ever since he came here.

The point being just because some are having problems with X doesn't mean all those with X are having the same problems.

I stand by my original comments. I'm genuinely sorry you're having problems with your camera. Just as many or more are not.

"Bob can't just leave it at asking question(s) or asking for clarification. He has to make a personal attack and mouth off with smart aleck remarks."

Read your own post:

"Those who think they simply take up a camera and use it expertly without any "experience" are only fooling themselves."

Perhaps you didn't mean it to read the way you wrote it however to me it implies that anyone who is having this issue doesn't know how to use the camera. That is a personal attack and you strutting your stuff, saying you're not having a problem because you know what you're doing.

Now I for the life of me cannot understand how if someone presses a button that sends a command to the camera or that closes a contact that operates a motor and something works differently between different cameras of the same model it has anything to do with their skills as a cameraperson.
I'll be the first to admit I suck as a cameraman, I've more than once knocked back offers of paying jobs because I know this. If I needed something shot in your neck of the woods you'd be the first person I'd offer the work to.

Bob.

Read your own post:

If that's the case--if that's how you interpreted what I said--then it wasn't my fault. I very clearly qualified who I was referring to. You've seen them, I've seen them, I've worked with them. You've worked with them. I said, Those who think they [can] simply take up a camera and use it expertly without any "experience" are only fooling themselves. There is absolutely nothing personal about that. It does not single out any individual and point the finger that them. So how on earth can it be personal?

What I was saying is that on many occasions the user attributes the fault of X to the object itself rather than considering they may be at fault. I've done it! We've all done it. Just read the posts here regarding Vegas.

If you think from one post I was bragging or strutting, fine. Think what you want. I've already addressed that.

Now I for the life of me cannot understand how if someone presses a button that sends a command to the camera or that closes a contact that operates a motor and something works differently between different cameras of the same model it has anything to do with their skills as a cameraperson.

If you honestly think that, and if you honestly think that operating a motion picture camera is as simple as pressing a button, then it is no wonder that we are having this debate. (I do not believe you think that way.) Zooming is a perfect example. When using a variable speed rocker control (as the on the EX cameras), it does take practice when zooming smoothly at any speed other than having the rocker mashed down all the way. That's a fact. There's no getting around it. The external control I use, the Bebob, works the same way. The consistency of the zoom is dependent on the consistency of the pressure applied by the camera operator, unless he has pressed the rocker as far down as it can go. Then the lens zooms at the fastest speed that was previously set in the menu.

Bob, you are very knowledgeable person. I truly admire--and envy--your understanding of things, not just Vegas or video production. You have helped me on a number of occasions, and for that help I am truly grateful. I mean that as sincerely as I've ever meant anything.

However, there are times, like above, when you attack or go on the offensive for no apparent reason. Such behavior rankles me to no end--not just when it's directed at me, but at anyone. That's one of my numerous weaknesses.

It is my sincere hope that you and I can come to some kind of understanding and be more congenial and understanding when responding to one another's posts.

If my original post offended you or if you thought it was directed at you, then, please, accept my wholehearted and sincere apology, for such was not the case. I was simply replying with an alternative thought, based on experience with and observation of beginning camera operators.

I'm certain if you and I were having this conversation face to face things would be different, we all know how easily words on the web can be read the wrong way. My apologies for flying off the handle at you.
As you probably know I get to field many calls from clients trying to tell me our kit is "broken" and 9 times out of 10 you are entirely correct, they simply don't understand the gear they are using and the EX cameras have been more of a problem in this area than any other camera we rent. We now actively discourage people from "learning" these cameras on paying jobs, there is just too much potential for things to go seriously wrong through no fault of the camera.

I don't have any problem with my EX1 either using the zoom rocker or the BeBob controller. I should check the other 4 in our fleet but I think we got lucky.

From what I read there is a difference between how the EX lens controller works and the more common LANC control. The LANC control sends commands to the camera, the camera executes those commands to operate motors etc.

The external lens control on the EX is different, the external controller seems to be driving the motor directly much the same as is done on the 'broadcast' lenses. Libec have pointed out the motor in the EX is different to the traditional lens motors in that it runs at 3V instead of 5V and this may explain why at low speeds it lacks enough torque to move without striction in some cameras. What it doesn't explain is how in the problem cameras it works fine using the camera's rocker to control the lens, surely Bebob and Libec can emulate the exact same circuit or maybe not, I don't really know.

Varizoom have a remote focus control motor for the EX that might be able to be pressed into service to control the EX's zooom for those having this issue. Not exactly a cheap or always practical solution. Certainly remote control of focus, zoom and iris is one thing we'll be looking for at NAB. A number of people have been keen to fly our EX cameras on jibs and cranes and finding afforable and dummy proof remote controls for them has so far alluded us. Perhaps the remote CCU for the EX3 is an answer but it's pretty darn expensive.

Bob.

there is nothing, i repeat nothing, to match the rocker on a fuji / canon 2/3 broadcast lens. from the vx 1000 onwards i've found the rockers less than adequate. they certainly work, but for ultra smooth slow zooms it's either mechanical (too expensive or impractical on most pro-sumer cameras), or a good steady hand on the manual zoom ring - which of course, isn't all that perfect either.

and i fully agree with the statement - mis-read or not ;-)

"Those who think they simply take up a camera and use it expertly without any "experience" are only fooling themselves."

i am constantly amazed with the displays of exceptionally bad camera work that pass before me from people professing 'expert' knowledge - mainly acquired from having attended uni or 'courses' (including mine unfortunately!) and thinking that shooting a 5 minute short puts them on a par with dean semlar

and, to throw fat on the fire, there is absolutely no comparison between prosumer and professional cameras, no matter what anyone would like to believe. i mean, comparing a $8k to a $50k camera is like saying there's no difference between a hyundi and a rolls - of course, some might argue that they both get you to your destination, but.....

holiday rant over,

leslie

I'm certain if you and I were having this conversation face to face things would be different, we all know how easily words on the web can be read the wrong way.

You are absolutely correct. I will work harder at trying to make certain my intent is more clear.

Thanks, Bob!

there is nothing, i repeat nothing, to match the rocker on a fuji / canon 2/3 broadcast lens.

Except a better zoom controller, that is :-)
On a previous camera, I bought a vari-speed zoom that I could adjust to anywhere from 5 sec. to over 60 sec. for an end to end zoom.
I loved being able to creep in that slow.

Mike

Leslie,

Yes a Fujinon / Canon full servo does have a great feel.
But honestly I hardly ever do a zoom that is seen in the shot.
Its mostly to get the shot framed quickly.

Most will say it is usually a right hand on pan handle left on zoom ring
camera hug manual zoom that appears in any shots in the video.

I do wish one could program the ramp up/down speed on the controllers.
My Bebob Zoe has a handy thumb wheel speed control that helps.

hi there mike,

true, and i have to say if i set the top zoom (on my v1) for really slow, it really is slow - though best used on legs. used to use various handle mounted zooms on the studio cameras many years ago, but never really got used to them (most of my work was eng, not efp). seemed, and still does so, somehow unnatural ;-)

rc,

agree entirely, usually never zoom in a shot, but when i do (usually on an art work), your -

'Most will say it is usually a right hand on pan handle left on zoom ring

holds true here as well......

leslie