John,

Thanks for the mini review. I own most of the Sonic Foundry/Sony products and love them all, except for DVD Architect. For its price (it is amazingly expensive) it should do far more. Most people have defended it -- up until now -- because it was the only program under $1,000 that would handle AC3 audio. It looks to me like this program can author with AC3. Since I can output AC3 from Vegas, and since I can burn using Nero, it looks to me like this program is the way to go.

This is especially true because I suspect that Sony will charge for the upgrade that contains end actions, and the price you quote is probably less than what Sony will charge for the upgrade. This is admittedly a lot of speculation on my part.

Even if this isn't true, the one undeniable fact is that this program is available NOW and Sony has made no promises at all about when -- or if -- an upgrade will be available (they did, after all, drop CD Architect for many years).

"....because it was the only program under $1,000 that would handle AC3 audio." ?

What about DVDit PE , ReelDVD, Pinnacle Impression Pro , Ulead DVD Workshop ? Admittedly more than $79 they are, but they will all do AC3 stereo & some will accept AC3 5.1.

The thing that DVDA offers that they don't is things like , mixing 4:3 & 16:9 in the same project & importing markers for chapter points.

All of these programs have strengths & weaknesses. Some will do multiple angles , others multiple audio tracks & subtitle tracks etc etc. It is a matter of what features you need. DVDLab does appear to be good value (I haven't tried it but I do have most of the programs I've listed above), & the developer does say on his site that he will be further developing/adding features such as multiple audio tracks to it. The other thing you need to consider is that if you are going to make a living from producing DVDs are you going to risk the reputation of your business by using a product from an umproven source or are you going to go for an established company with an established product ?

vonhosen:

Great points. The products you mention can handle AC3, but most of them are quite expensive. As I have pointed out in previous posts, DVD authoring will, without question, rapidly follow the path of CD authoring, and the price for what are now considered "professional" features will plummet. When the volume sold skyrockets into the millions, the prices usually drop quickly below $100.

The only point I disagreed with -- and I only disagree slightly -- is this one: "are you going to risk the reputation of your business by using a product from an unproven source or are you going to go for an established company with an established product ?" My disagreement is perhaps best stated as a question. Is there really something the authoring package can do that will cause the disc to not play on certain DVD players? I have seen much speculation on this in various DVD forums, but I've never seen the results from a test that definitively points to the authoring package as the source of incompatibility. Most problems seem to have to do with media, encoding rates, and burner firmware.

Does anyone know if bad authoring software can cause a disc to not play (or not navigate properly) on some DVD set-top players?

The only thing I would add is that DVD Architect does all it's functions "by the rules." DVD Lab has been known to reach certain results by skirting around the specs set forth by the DVD standard. What is the consequence of this? I have no idea. Could there be problems with a DVD Lab produced DVD when sent to a replication house? Who knows, maybe. I would think the DVD consortium set the rules for a reason, but then again, I would have thought that our forefathers wrote laws for a reason, and I doubt that reason was to allow Ahhhnold to become California's governor in an off year. Who knows.

John

The main reason I say that is because as "thrillcat" has illustrated some authoring programs don't adhere strictly to DVD specs in order provide features. This may not reveal itself on every player but surely if it is your business, compatability of the products you are putting out are of major concern to you.

Not all authoring engines are equal . Sonic (solutions) for instance will have you know that their engine in ReelDVD is the same engine as in their top product line Scenarist software. (This same engine is not used in their other products DVDit , DVD Producer etc). The construction & layout of files in the authoring process is obviously very important & the authoring engine will affect this.

By example given the choice of the two following scenarios I know which I would take.
1) Create an image file with ReelDVD & burn with 3rd party software
2) Create DVD folders with ReelDVD & burn thses with 3rd party software.

Now I would go option 1) Because Reels engine is an industry standard & I would prefer it to lay down the files to DVD spec rather than risk leaving this to the burning software. If I burn an image the burning software just does a bit for bit copy & doesn't have any influence on the file order.
Why pay $900 for authoring software & then leave the crucial task of laying the files in the correct way to $30 burning software ?

Undoubtedly burning software that recognises the need to burn VIDEO_TS folders to DVD spec will in the main do the job, but will it do it as well as Reel's engine ?

I just think that if it's your business to make DVDs you are going to want the product you are putting out adhering to the specs at least.

I find it hilarious that John was getting all hot and bothered at me in the Vegas forum for not being 'professional' in my saying it isn't necessary to use a fancy monitor for checking color and levels (it isn't necessary) and here he's singing the praises about an application that's capable of cranking out non standard DVD's that may not play in everyone's DVD player. I guess John's idea of being "professional" depends on what he likes and doesn't like. Right John?

See my previous post.

Different John....John

John

BillyBoob,

I have a program from Philips which checks a DVD for compliance with ALL of the DVD standards. The program is extremely thorough. Discs I have made with DVDLab have passed the tests. Also, I have never had a disc made in DVDLab fail to play in any DVD player. Enough said.

John

Well,
Without getting into any of the name calling, how an authoring application compiles and creates the ifos/vobs/etc is critical as to how a dvd will ultimately be accepted for playback on a set top player or not. There are obviously other factors as well, but the authoring app itself is a key component. DVD-Lab does not (IMO) create as widely compatible discs as ReelDVD. I have used it, as well as several others (including ReelDVD and DVD-A). Impression Pro initially had a problem with it's creation of the VMG that caused discs to fail playback on some players. DVD-Lab on it's own website states that it is 'easy on restrictions'--allowing users to intentionally (or unintentionally) create out of spec discs. If your job doesn't depend on outputting highly reliable discs and it's for your own use (and you know your own set top player handles the discs just fine), then the price is hard to beat with some nice features. They have a demo that you can try and find out for your self before buying. If your job depends on it, then you'll easily pay back on your investment of a tried and true 3.x app like ReelDVD.

Jim

Oh my God!

I'm thinking there must be some po'ed Cubs fans here tonight.

Cubs lost! Cubs lost! Cubs lost!

That was such a nice apology John. Thanks. Just rant and rave and have a full blown conniption fit and when you find out it wasn't even addressed to you just tuck tail and run. Such class.

BillyBoy,

How many people in this forum are you going to attack? As irritating as Zippy was, at least he never got personal.

My original response to you, which I'd be happy to re-post if it will make you feel better, was based on the fact that you addressed it to "John," and, since I am one of the few in these forums that doesn't use a "handle" but instead uses his real name, it appeared to be aimed at me. I also believed it was aimed at me because you took a completely pointless shot at me just last week (I refer to your comments concerning my use of the word "recipe" in my VHS noise reduction post). I also note, for others that may read this post, that you are the happy recipient of a post, just within the past few hours over in the Vegas forum, from someone else you have offended. Finally, if I really wanted to, I could cite many, many other posts in recent months from people who found your responses -- at the risk of severely understating -- impolite.

I know that many people forgive and defend you because of your tutorials, but I don't think that gives you license to treat so many people (not just me) so callously and cavalierly. I know that if I were you, and a large number of people were willing to state in a public forum that I was being rude, I would get the hint and try to change.

So, if you want me to re-instate the original post, I will be happy to do so. If you want an apology from me, I will do so, but only if you first apologize to the "other John" who, after all, was the recipient of your thoughtless off-topic remarks which, as my original response pointed out, did not help the original poster, and had no other purpose than to attack another forum member.

Finally, just to give you an idea what a polite person would have written in your last post, instead of sarcastically writing:

"That was such a nice apology John. Thanks. Just rant and rave and have a full blown conniption fit and when you find out it wasn't even addressed to you just tuck tail and run. Such class",

you could have written

"johnmeyer, that last post of mine wasn't addressed to you."

If you had written that, I would have apologized.

But you didn't. Too bad.

Johnmeyer, you take humility lessons from GG?

I don't "attack" people. I defend myself with HUMOR when someone is foolish enough to attack me. Gives new meaning to slow learner when people don't learn.

I'm sorry you have no sense of humor at all. The "facts" in this case is you totally went nuts because you just saw John and thought it was addressed to you. Instead of saying sorry, no, you just tried to sneak your comments off. Very cowardly. So sure, I gave you a little zingier. You deserved it. Were you smart enough to let it pass? No. Apparently not.

That other "john" is cut from the same cloth you are. No sense of humor either and oozes 'I'm a professional' you're not' kind of a attitude. He been on my case for months and jumps in many threads just to disagree with what I've said, just to disagree. So sure, I have some fun with him too when he puts his foot in his mouth. Funny, you're not critical of him. Why not?

Do others cut me some slack? You bet. They also know I try to help and that I have a sense of humor. Its curious that you seem proud of the fact that you're one of a few that uses his "real name" and can't be bothered to pick a more informal nick to be known by like the rest of us have. Very common in forums like this to have a nick. BTW, everyone's "real name" is just a click away. Try clicking on a name sometime. Next time I respond to anything you say I probably will address you as Mr. John Meyer or maybe I'll see how well the Ignore This User works. Why don't you?

You see most of the above is damn funny, but something tells me you won't get it. Doesn't matter. Others will. Bet on it.

Billyboy,

This is not worth debating. I will only re-iterate that, other than you, no one has ever taken shots at me. By contrast, it happens to you all the time. Rather than owning up to the obvious, you attempt to -- let's see how would you say it -- give me a few "zingers" and then claim that I'm not hip enough to get your humor.

I know humor when I see it, and I know an insult when I see it. Only Don Rickles could do both at the same time and make it work. For those without his gifts and talent, all that is left is the insult.

I know you have your friends and defenders here, and I myself respect your contributions. In fact, if you search on my user name and look for "BillyBoy" in the search field, you will find that I have paid you many compliments.

All I am asking from you -- and not just for me, but for everyone -- is some civility, politeness, and some basic respect.

Sonic pretty much wrote the book on DVD authoring and their apps make the most compliant DVD's out there. I have used Sonics's ReelDVD as my primary DVD authoring program, but I never have particularly cared for their user interface. I have also found it to be slightly unstable. I've had it crash a time or two for no good reason.

The new Adobe Encore is built on the Sonic engine with an Adobe user interface. It seems to work pretty well and I can already see that it may become my new preferred DVD authoring app.

I like DVDLab for its ease of use while also providing some advanced features. I like it and I use it. Like I said in my original post before BB barged in here and hijacked the thread, its easily worth $79.

John

By the way John, I had the misfortune of seeing Don Rickles in Las Vegas years ago and he was lobbing a bunch of insults at some guy close to the front of the stage. Don asked him to stand up and he didn't, so Don hurled some more insults at him then asked, "What? Are you too chicken to stand up?" and the guy said, "No, I'm in a wheelchair and I can't stand up." Don didn't get another laugh for the rest of the show. Don and BillyBoy seem to have the same type of sense of humor and I don't find either of them funny, just annoying.

ReelDVD & Scenarist use the "Daikin" engine I believe , these being bought out by Sonic. The other Sonic products use Sonic's engine.

As vonhosen pointed out, THE defacto authoring app currently is Sonic's Scenarist--which Sonic didn't create (including it's compiling engine), but Daikin did. The two main product lines that Sonic got from the acquisition was Scenarist (and it's various forms) and ReelDVD (DVD Informer and Presenter are the other two). ReelDVD is built on the same engine as Scenarist--which clearly has a reputation for creating compatible discs (it's the Hollywood standard). I don't have a single piece of software that from time to time hasn't crashed--but I suspect that has more to do with MS OS than the app itself. ReelDVD has been by far and away the most stable of all the authoring apps I've used.

Adobe's Encore is the 'new kid on the block', and is built on Sonic's home grown compiling engine and (unfortunately) not Daikin's. It's a good 1.x release, but like DVD-A, suffers a bit from it being a new product. It has some nice features, and I think Adobe is committed to supporting it.

Jim

"I like DVDLab for its ease of use while also providing some advanced features. I like it and I use it. Like I said in my original post ... its easily worth $79"

I think I'll give it a whirl. My original request was whether anyone had actual experience with DVDs that wouldn't play on some DVD players and whether they could say with certainty that this was caused by non-standard IFO or VOB files (the files created by the authoring software). Pretty much everyone that responded is suspicious of some of these programs, and feels confident that Sony's software follows the rules more stringently. However, absent any hard evidence, I'm willing to spend the $79, especially for projects that won't be distributed widely or are just for my own use.

Again, to john_cline, JSWTS, vonhosen and others, thanks for your help.

johnmeyer,

There is a free 30-day demo of DVDLab available. Before you spend the $79, try it out and see what you think.

John

I didn't see the 30-day demo offer. I'll go back and look. Thanks.

johnmeyer,

Go to the MediaChance Download Page and get version 1.1, this includes the full installation package.

Then, go to the DVDLab History Page and get the v1.3 beta 3 update.

Just so no one thinks I'm "bashing" DVD Architect, a friend of mine owns it and I have created a couple of projects with it. It was really quite impressive, particularly for a v1.0 release. However, the current lack of "end actions" in DVDA is the reason I have not bought it. End actions are critical to the type of productions that I do.

John