JR:

I am also looking at vegas dvd+. I had a couple of questions for you about the program. First does it easily import mpeg2 video's . Second is it kinda easy to use. It seems like it does so much , I am looking at the demo which is limited as to functions , and trying to get a handle on it. For a person like myself that is not doing this for a living I wondered what your thoughts were, obviously if pricing is not one of the issues. Last for the moment, studio would take about 12 hours to render a dvd . Mind you I only had about 6 chapters and transitions on a 59 minute recording. Is Vegas more robust than studio or Screenblast?

Thanks for your time jr!
Dave

Dave,

I don’t do this for a living either. It’s just a hobby for me, but I’m a musician so I like to play around and create and Vegas is a wonderfully creative tool. You might not scratch the surface at first and Screenblast might be a better fit if you aren’t thinking of making this a hobby. But video editing kind of sucks you in and gets to be a lot of fun and before you know it you’re looking for some of the features that Vegas has. You really have to judge for yourself.

If you just want to shoot some video, cut out the bad stuff, slap on some titles and a fancy transition or two and make a DVD for the family to see, then I would get Screenblast. You can always upgrade to Vegas later. Like I said, I started with Studio, upgraded to VideoFactory and then moved on to Vegas when I needed more tracks for compositing work. Since Screenblast is going to add a third video track that should satisfy 95% of what I do in Vegas today.

Let me try and answer your questions one by one:

> First does it easily import mpeg2 video's

Yes, both Vegas 4 and DVD Architect can easily import and use MPEG2 files. I could never get Studio to handle MPEG files properly so I’d say they both do it much better than Studio does.

> Second is it kinda easy to use.

Vegas, VideoFactory, and ScreenBlast MovieStudio share the same interface. So you will have the same learning curve regardless of which one you choose. I will admit that Vegas looks a little harder because it doesn’t start off with the tradition video and audio tracks already on the screen which leads to the “What do I do now?” syndrome when you first open it instead of, “Oh yea, there’s the video and audio tracks” feeling you get with VideoFactory or Studio. But you get over that the first day.

> I am looking at the demo which is limited as to functions , and trying to get a handle on it.

The biggest difference between the Vegas/VideoFactory interface and Studio is that they Vegas/VideoFactory lets you manipulate the clips right on the timeline for many things you would go into the menus for in Studio. This confuses Studio users at first. For example: To add a fade in or fade out in Studio you drop a fade transition. In Vegas/VideoFactory you simply move the fade bar at the end of the clip. To make a crossfade in Studio you drop a crossfade transition between two clips. In Vegas you just overlap the clips on the timeline and they automatically crossfade. You can then drop any other transition in its place. To make a clip transparent, you just drag the transparency bar down at the top of the clip. (Studio doesn’t even have this capability). So the fundamental workings are different than Studio but they are more streamlined because a lot of it is done right on the timeline or with right-click menus.

I would download the manual and read the Basic Editing Techniques section to get an understanding of how to use Vegas.

> studio would take about 12 hours to render a dvd

I just completed an hour long DVD for a wedding I attended. I rendered the MPEG2 file from Vegas which took about two and a half (2.5) hours on my Pentium 4 1.7Ghz PC. I dropped it into DVD Architect and made some menus to play the whole movie and a scene selection menu with 12 chapter points, 6 on each page (3 menus total) and added music to the menus. DVD Architect built the DVD image on my hard drive in 17 minutes. I then burned the DVD with my Pioneer A03 2x burner, which took about 22 minutes. I’d say that’s way less than 12 hours by about a factor of 4!

> Is Vegas more robust than studio or Screenblast?

I would hope so given Vegas is $500 and Studio and Screenblast are $99 and $69. ;-) Here is a link to the comparison chart between VideoFactory and Vegas Video 3 and also the comparison of Vegas 3 to Vegas 4 and Vegas 4+DVD. You can read my comparison of Studio 8 vs. VideoFactory 2 in this thread. Vegas does a whole lot more but if these are features you don’t think you’ll need, stick with ScreenBlast for now.

~jr

JR:

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond. Your answer was way more than I was hoping for and I really appreciate the time it took you to give such a detailed explanation. I will be playing some more with the demo today and try to make a decision.

I am leaning towards VEgas as I have an opportunity to get a copy at a really good price ( about $250 ) including the dvd+ . I have downloaded the manual and trying to learn some basics.

Thanks again for your time. It is people like you that really make the internet an unbelievable experience!

Dave

jr:

IF you have the time I have some other questions/ problems. First I am not that happy with the video I am getting when I capture. I am capturing in mpeg-2 at 720x480. Of course my camcorder is 5 years . It is a sony 8mm. I am not sure if I am trying to record in too high of a resolution compared to what is on the tape or not. Final output would be to DVD. What are your thoughts on this?

Secondly, I am using the ATI All in Wonder Pro 9700 to capture. I notice when I pause the camcorder the preview jumps all over the place even though the camcorder preview is solid and clear. I am not sure if this is a card limitation or not. What do you use to capture your video to the computer?

I did try the Studio DV box, but that was a piece of crap and I returned it. I do have firewire on the computer.

I sure would appreciate any input you may have. I still have time to return the AIW card if you might have other recommendations. By the way I do like to play a few games also, so the video card is important to me as far as performance goes.

Sure appreciate your feedback

Dave

Dave,

> IF you have the time I have some other questions

Actually, it’s Sunday afternoon here and I have a choice between mowing the lawn and answering your questions... Hmmm... now let’s see... OK, I guess I’ll stay here and answer your questions ;-)

> First I am not that happy with the video I am getting when I capture. I am capturing in mpeg-2 at 720x480.

You don’t want to capture to MPEG for two good reasons:

1) Remember I said that my P4 1.7Ghz takes 2.5 hours to encode 1 hour of video as MPEG2? That’s 2.5 times the real-time length of the video. Well I’ll bet your machine will not encode high quality MPEG2 in real-time either. So what do you think happens when you try and capture MPEG2 in real-time (i.e., one hour = one hour)? Yep, you sacrifice quality. Unless the ATI All in Wonder Pro 9700 has a real-time hardware MPEG2 encoder (which I don’t think it has $$$) you should be capturing in AVI format for best results. The files are bigger but the quality should be better.

2) Even if you could capture high quality MPEG2 files in real-time, MPEG2 is not a good format for editing. This is because it only stores a full frame every 15 frames (actually this is adjustable but lets use 15 for sake of argument). These are called I-frames. Then between those I-frames it just stores the delta changes (called B and P frames). The problem is, once you edit a single frame of MPEG video, the ENTIRE FILE must be re-rendered to get the IBP frames back in the same sequence. (there is an editable version of MPEG which is I frames only but it takes a lot more space)

Bottom line: If you are going to edit, don't capture as MPEG, capture as AVI.

> I notice when I pause the camcorder the preview jumps all over the place even though the camcorder preview is solid and clear

I can’t help you here. I’ve never used one of these cards.

> What do you use to capture your video to the computer?

I have a Studio Deluxe AVDV card but I would never recommend one. Mine happends to work fine, but it doesn’t work with Vegas because Pinnacle only supports their software. If I had to do it again I would get a Canopus ADVC-50 (analog to DV in) or ADVC-100 (analog to DV in and back out). They are expensive ($199 and $299 respectively) but they work great. See if capturing with the ATI in AVI mode gives better results before you spend more money.

> I did try the Studio DV box, but that was a piece of crap and I returned it.

I’m not sure I understand which crappy Pinnacle product you’re referring to. Studio DV is firewire only and wouldn’t work with your Hi8 camera. The Studio Deluxe card has a break-out box and will capture both DV and analog. Doesn’t matter though taking it back was a wise choice. Pinnacle hardware is proprietary and only works with Pinnacle software, which is notoriously buggy. It’s a no win scenario. You did the right thing.

> By the way I do like to play a few games also, so the video card is important to me as far as performance goes.

Yea, I’m an avid gamer myself. Unreal Tournament, Return to Castle Wolfenstien, etc. (FPS). Gotta have that relief from reality. I have a nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4200 but I’m thinking of buying an ATI for my next computer because they seem to perform better for rendering 3D effects.

OK, now I gotta go mow the lawn. :(

~jr

jr:

It seems like the more you answer the more questions I have :)

I have 60 gig availlable on the drive I am using and I the program shows I can only record 50 minutes when using avi format. So, I don't think that avi is a possibility.

Getting back to the resolution I mentioned in the previous post. If the camcorder is an 8mm do you think I should be recording at 720 by 480 for dvd? Or should I reduce the resolution of the project?

I really don't know alot about this so I am not sure if I am overdoing it by recording at such a high resloution when I doubt the camcorder recorded near this resolution.

If I was to reduce the resolution I could record more time in avi.

As far as the Studio DV - Just to clarify. It had a Firewire to the pc then Took the s video from the camcorder and regular sound in. As I said just to clarify, but it doesn't matter since I took it back

YOu see right now I don't have a way to test all this as I don't have a working program to get my test results to dvd, since I am playing with the demo programs.

Thanks and hope you got the lawn mowed ok!

Dave

Dave,

The lawn is mowed... the wife is happy… life is good. ;-)

> It seems like the more you answer the more questions I have :)

That’s a good sign. When you stop asking questions you either know it all or you’re dead. Either way you won't have many friends :)

720x480 is exactly what you want to capture at for DVD quality. But 50 minutes of AVI on a 60GB hard drive sounds wrong. DV takes up 14GB per hour. You should be getting about 4 hours of DV AVI on a 60GB drive. This tells me that your capture card is not using a very efficient codec. (the software that encodes and decodes the video)

I did a little digging on the ATI web site and it says this card captures to MPEG2 or ATI VCR Format. I don’t know what ATI VCR Format is or if Vegas or VideoFactory can even edit it but it sounds proprietary to me. The card should be using a standard codec like DV or Motion JPEG (MJPEG).

I did a search on dvdrhelp.com in the Capture Cards section and lots of people are saying this card isn’t very good for capturing. Look here so see what I read.

It looks like your best bet is to take the card back and get a straight ATI 9700 Pro for gaming and a Canopus ADVC-50 for capturing analog to DV. (at least that’s what I’d do) Here are some comments on the ADVC-50.

> I don't have a working program to get my test results to dvd

Go to the Ulead web site and download the 30-day trial of DVD MovieFactory 2. It will capture from your card and burn a DVD for you. It’s not feature disabled in anyway, just time disabled to 30 days. I own a copy and think it’s the best $45 I ever spent. I used this all the time before DVD Architect came out and I bought that. This will at least let you do some testing with your card before you decide to take it back.

~jr

jr:

I appreciate your comments, I will be sending back the AIW. A shame after all this time. I will do some reading on the advc-50 you have mentioned and keep you updated.

Based on my initial look at the comments you referred, seems like it works very well with vegas! That may be the program I will end up with

By the way, I thought the AIW was taking up way too much space when going to AVI??

And, If you don't mind I may have some more questions as I do my reading over the next few days.

Thanks so much again JR for your time and responses.

Dave

Just to clarify, the AIW can capture to the following container formats using the included ATI Multimedia Center (MMC) application: AVI, MPEG (1 & 2), WMV and VCR. Out of the box, Video Factory can only edit MPEG-1 and AVI. The VCR format is indeed proprietary and is mostly used for timeshifting.

It should be noted that the AIW relies on the CPU to compress video, only MPEG capture is (partially) accelerated by the card.

Also, as long as you have a VFW compatible MJPEG or DV codec installed on your system, it will work with the MMC. However, it should be noted that these codecs aren't installed by default and often cost extra $$$.

Finally, most of the criticism of ATI products is usually leveled at the MMC. I have to agree. I never use the MMC for capture. Luckily, unlike Pinnacle products, ATI products can be used by almost any of the 3rd party Directshow compliant capture programs floating out there (incl. VF's own Vidcap app - although I think it stinks for analog capture).

I have to say ATI's AIW is an excellent low-cost video capture device. It will suit the needs of anyone who want TV on their computer and does ocassional video capture. However, if you do heavy duty capturing or just have money to burn, the Canopus products mentioned by JohnnyRoy is the way to go.

Dave,

You’re welcome and good luck.

If you can use an MJPEG codec like discdude suggests, PICVideo makes one for $28. I used this with my Pinnacle DC10+ card and it has real good quality. You can download a trial version to see if it works before you return the ATI card but if discdude thinks this card is really for occasional capture you may be better off getting something else. If you are about to embark on capturing all your 8mm tapes, you have to ask yourself what your memories are worth and get a good capture card.

If you read the posts from the link I gave you, you’ll see that a lot of people started with something else, e.g., ATI, Pinnacle, Dazzle, etc. and then got the ADVC-50. So you can get a cheaper card, but you can’t get a better card without spending a whole lot more.

Discdude,

Thanks for confirming what I had surmised from reading the web sites. I always feel hesitant to give advice on a product I haven’t dealt with personally but the posts at dvrhelp.com where in overwhelming agreement. It’s still reassuring to know someone here whose opinion I trust, agrees. ;-)

~jr

jr and discdude:

Thought I would let you know I went and ordered the advc-50 today. I also plan on getting Vegas dvd+ So jr: Now the questioons will really begin. But ho[efully it won't be how to get it to work. Just tips on how to do stuff. What a change that will be

I forgot to ask if the card came with the adapter to put it in a 5 1/2 bay. Sure hope so!


I can't thanks you enough for all of your help.

I'll be in touch I am sure. Probably post in the vegas area after I get the software

Dave

You're gonna be a happy pup with an ADVC-50 and Vegas 4+DVD. See ya' on the Vegas boards.

~jr

jr:

tell me is there a place to find an easy tutorial to insert chapter marks after I have the video the way I want it, Then set up the menu in dvd+ ANd when to render, etc. I am looking at the manual for vegas and feel WAY overwelmed. Thanks in advence

Dave

There sure is. Our own BillyBoy has an excellent tutorial on DVD Architect right here. When you get to the end, be sure to click on the main menu button and check out the rest of his web site. It's full of really great tutorials on Vegas.

~jr

Thanks I will, check it out soon. Busy trying to uninstall and install a different video card. I am sure you know what a pain that can be.

Appreciate your help!

Dave

Another consideration is price. I purchased Screenblast from CompUSA for $69.99, it had a $30 rebate. So for $40 you can get a great NLE that meets the needs of most home editors. I've seen the same deal at Circuit City also. Screenblast Musicstudio has also been offered at both stores with the same rebate.

JR: I got the advc 50. However after hooking it up it says the iee1394 dv device is not available when I go into the video in Vegas. Any thoughts? Checked all connections and have the supplied cable into the back of my firewire card. I know the firewire card is working because I can hook up my IPOD no problem? Are there anydrivers that need to be loaded to get this to work? Any thoughts are appreciated asas I am frantic and wanted to do this this weekend!

Thanks Dave