New video card for Vegas Pro 15?

JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 7:32 AM

Building a new i9 Gen 9 machine, and looking at video cards. Nvidia reigns supreme over Radeon just about everywhere else, but I see multiple posts about problems with Nvidia cards on Vegas. In fact, I was looking at a buying a friend's 1070i. I currently have a R9 380X I could use, but the benchmark is half of the Nvidia. My main interest is timeline performance over render times.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/25/2019, 8:24 AM

You talk about graphic cards like nvidia or AMD - but videocards are Cards like the Intensity Pro 4K or the Decklink 4K or AJA Cards that work also fine in Vegas.

So what do you mean really?

 

JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 9:10 AM

@Wolfgang S. To clarify, I am asking specifically about GPUs. Not capture cards.

j-v wrote on 7/25/2019, 9:30 AM

In Vegas was and is the processor most important, for decoding and editting, how faster the better.
To show effects realtime a good videocard (GPU) is needed and those you need are listed in the program specs.
For rendering that is needed if the processor is used to its max a GPU from specs can help with some codecs to render to.
How faster that one is with enough memory the better, but only for the help to the processor.
How Vegas 17 will handle all this we have to wait, see and try.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10, i7 7900 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 15,16,17 and VMS PL 15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.86 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

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JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 10:23 AM

@j-v I am very much aware that Vegas benefits most from processor performance. Hence the upgrade to an i9 system. My question is does it make sense to go with a new Nvidia card, or maybe just stick with my old R9. Specifically looking for those with experience with this.

j-v wrote on 7/25/2019, 10:41 AM

Who do you think have both in one system so they can compare both?

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10, i7 7900 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 15,16,17 and VMS PL 15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.86 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 10:58 AM

@j-v I am sure there are those who have installed Nvidia cards, and can answer my question. Again, I am just asking if it makes sense to buy a new Nvidia card for this system build. I'm not looking for exact benchmark comparisons.

JN_ wrote on 7/25/2019, 11:28 AM

This image is now updated unfortunately. If I get more Benchmarking results with AMD cards I'll update again.

Last changed by JN_ on 7/26/2019, 2:47 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10, has latest updates ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

j-v wrote on 7/25/2019, 11:36 AM

Look into my signature. I use Nvidia's on desktop and laptop and they are doing good for me in VPro 15 and 16, unless the drivers are the right ones and the system is good build with the right components on the right extensions of the mobo.
Of course I cannot know if they works the same with an i9 processor.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10, i7 7900 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 15,16,17 and VMS PL 15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.86 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 11:49 AM

@JN_

Ooo! That benchmark chart is pretty darn handy. Thanks so much!

JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 11:52 AM

@j-v Thanks for the info. Neither GPU maker is without its driver issue. Just good to know that folks get good performance and stable results when right. It wasn't so very long ago that only a Radeon card made sense. Now there's just more options on the Nvidia side.

fr0sty wrote on 7/25/2019, 1:11 PM

Here's the experience I've had:

Nvidia - Rock solid stability in my GTX 970, however driver updates would frequently break NVENC compatibility in Vegas, or cause bugs/crashes. In exchange for stability, timeline acceleration was nowhere near as good as it is on my current Radeon 7.

AMD - Crappy drivers, my main monitor overscans if I turn it on before windows begins to boot and every time I turn on my LG OLED secondary display, both displays flicker, sometimes the second one comes on, sometimes it just flickers to static and I have to make a settings change to that monitor in windows (like changing resolution or disabling HDR) to send another signal to the TV to get it working, then revert back to previous settings. However, my Radeon 7 screams in Vegas, it's quite nice.... On the flip side, GPU accel in Neat Video no longer works, and there's a couple other apps that GPU acceleration with my card is broken on. The new AMD cards that just dropped might offer similar performance at a better price.

I can say that it just seems to be my TVs the Radeon doesn't like, I was able to run a video projection mapping installation using 3 projectors for 4 days with no problems in the woods of Backwoods Music Festival last month, which is what I consider to be a good GPU stress test for what I do.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/25/2019, 2:34 PM

@fr0sty

Thanks so much for the info. Timeline performance is key for what I am looking for. Price is defintely a consideration here as you've guessed. I have heard good things about the new Radeon 7. Both companies have some spotty driver history over the years. Back when Radeon cards were produced by ATI, the driver problems were terrible. My old R9 has served well, but the Nvidia bargains are tempting. Thanks.

fr0sty wrote on 7/25/2019, 2:52 PM

Worth adding that the neat video folks got back with me and have apparently updated it to work with Radeon 7, in neat bench it clocks in at over 30fps.

fr0sty wrote on 7/25/2019, 2:54 PM

This is a Ryzen 7 1800x CPU paired with a Radeon 7 results in Neat Bench.

 

Neat Bench (Neat Image 8.5.0, Neat Video 5.1.0) x64
Copyright (c) 1999-2019 Neat Image team, Neat Video team, ABSoft.
All Rights Reserved.

GPU detection log:

Failed to initialize CUDA driver.
If you use an NVIDIA card, please install the latest video driver with CUDA support.

OpenCL driver version: 2766.5
OpenCL initialized successfully.
Checking OpenCL GPU #1:
GPU device name is: AMD Radeon VII (gfx906)
16192 MB total (16128 MB available during initialization)
Check passed - will attempt to use the device


Neat Video benchmark:

Frame Size:    1920x1080 progressive
Bitdepth:    32 bits per channel
Mix with Original:    Disabled
Temporal Filter:    Enabled
    Quality Mode:    Normal
    Radius:    2 frames
    Dust and Scratches:    Disabled
    Repeat Rate:    0% of repeated frames
    Jitter Filtration:    Normal
Spatial Filter:    Enabled
    Quality Mode:    Normal
    Frequencies:    High, Mid, Low, Very Low
    Artifact Removal:    Enabled
    Edge Smoothing:    Disabled
    Sharpening:    Disabled


Detecting the best combination of performance settings:
running the test data set on up to 16 CPU cores and on up to 1 GPU
AMD Radeon VII: 16192 MB total (16128 MB currently available), using up to 100%

CPU only (1 core): 2.2 frames/sec
CPU only (2 cores): 4.67 frames/sec
CPU only (3 cores): 6.14 frames/sec
CPU only (4 cores): 8.31 frames/sec
CPU only (5 cores): 9.83 frames/sec
CPU only (6 cores): 10.3 frames/sec
CPU only (7 cores): 9.98 frames/sec
CPU only (8 cores): 10.5 frames/sec
CPU only (9 cores): 9.41 frames/sec
CPU only (10 cores): 8.69 frames/sec
CPU only (11 cores): 7.48 frames/sec
CPU only (12 cores): 7.83 frames/sec
CPU only (13 cores): 7.06 frames/sec
CPU only (14 cores): 6.72 frames/sec
CPU only (15 cores): 6.2 frames/sec
CPU only (16 cores): 6.22 frames/sec
GPU only (AMD Radeon VII): 36.7 frames/sec
CPU (2 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 13 frames/sec
CPU (3 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 16.3 frames/sec
CPU (4 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 18.9 frames/sec
CPU (5 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 20.9 frames/sec
CPU (6 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 21.1 frames/sec
CPU (7 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 22.1 frames/sec
CPU (8 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 21.8 frames/sec
CPU (9 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 19.4 frames/sec
CPU (10 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 20.7 frames/sec
CPU (11 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 20.2 frames/sec
CPU (12 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 19.2 frames/sec
CPU (13 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 16.8 frames/sec
CPU (14 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 18.2 frames/sec
CPU (15 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 17.7 frames/sec
CPU (16 cores) and GPU (AMD Radeon VII): 10.9 frames/sec

Best combination: GPU only (AMD Radeon VII): 36.7 frames/sec
 

fifonik wrote on 7/25/2019, 4:16 PM

In one CPU review I read long time ago: "Different CPUs show different performance in different tasks".

I was laughing first. But... this is true and applied for GPUs as well.

So you cannot really choose the best for your case until you decide what exactly you are optimizing. "Preview performance in Vegas" is not specific enough as we are talking about hundreds of different plugins that might be used during preview in Vegas.

 

The GTX 1070 should be faster in most cases and it is a bit newer:

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1070-vs-AMD-R9-380X/3609vs3532

 

NeatVideo comparison between these GTX 1070 and R9 380 (not X):

http://fifonik.com/nv/?gpu=104%2C106&combine_frequencies=true

Last changed by fifonik on 7/25/2019, 4:17 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X, RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4 3200, Graphics card: MSI RX470 4GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO SATA 250MB, HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 64-bit 1809

NLE: Vegas Pro 11, 12, 13, 15

mikelinton wrote on 7/26/2019, 12:33 AM

Just bought the Radeon VII as an upgrade from that R9 390 we were running. It is much faster at many things, but it is not without major issues. Right now the card is crashing the system whenever it tries to play H265 MOV files from the Fuji XT3. Works fine on the R9 on our other edit suite (and previously on this machine it was fine). So far nothing has resolved it and it's very frustrating. Tried the usual - drivers etc etc. Going to do a major overhaul to the Threadripper 2950X so will see if it's any better after that. If not she's going back to the store.

fr0sty wrote on 7/26/2019, 1:10 AM

I haven't had issues with HEVC files rendered by Vegas, FWIW, @mikelinton.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/26/2019, 6:38 AM

@mikelinton Wow, good to know. This is the sort of thing I was looking for. I would bet it's probably a driver issue, and not the hardware itself. I wouldn't be surprised your issue is later fixed by a driver update. This is all too often the case with newer cards.

mikelinton wrote on 7/26/2019, 10:58 AM

@fr0sty yeah still have some playing around to do. I have H265 drone footage I'll try playing with that. The culprit may be QuickTime or something, since the Fuji footage is wrapped in an MOV. It's frustrating. @joeaustin - it's possible drivers may fix it, but it also may never get resolved. Vegas has had some bugs that haven't been squashed in a decade so who knows. Could just be windows, could be Vegas, could be AMD - all the above! 😀 Will see what happens when we overhaul the system next week.

zdogg wrote on 7/26/2019, 11:04 AM

@Wolfgang S. To clarify, I am asking specifically about GPUs. Not capture cards.

Those are not "capture cards" - those are dedicated pro grade Video Cards, and yes, they normally do "capture" as well. I wouldn't say that is their primary function, especially nowadays.

zdogg wrote on 7/26/2019, 11:07 AM

Just bought the Radeon VII as an upgrade from that R9 390 we were running. It is much faster at many things, but it is not without major issues. Right now the card is crashing the system whenever it tries to play H265 MOV files from the Fuji XT3

I would think this is a "Quick Time" issue, not a card issue, per se.

mikelinton wrote on 7/26/2019, 12:39 PM

So here's the latest for anyone who cares. :) Swapped the Radeon VII for a 5700 (uses the same driver version) - experiencing similar (albeit very slightly different results). Plays the footage for a few seconds, locks Vegas, screens go black, audio plays for a bit and that's that. On the 5700 I can get back to Windows to force Vegas to close, but on the Radeon VII - the system just crashes. Vegas locks up hard. Ran the AMD utility to clean remove drivers, re-installed - same issue. Tried creating a new project and put int he same footage, same issue. Toggled the legacy GPU option and QSV - same issue. Disable GPU in Vegas, project plays without a hitch. QuickTime is just a wrapper for these, Vegas is doing the heavy lifting on the decode. So it would seem it's an issue with Vegas and this series of AMD drivers and/or GPUs and how it's trying to decode the footage.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/26/2019, 12:54 PM

@mikelinton Bit of a surprise that there were similar issues with QSV. I would think the Intel GPU would be the most reliable, albeit lower performance. The stability issues might be something to do with Vegas on the newer CPU/Chipsets.

I can say, that on my old rig, i7-4790K/R9 380, Vegas 15 crashes are quite rare. This is with GPU acceleration enabled too. This was not the case early on, and I can't remember if it was a AMD driver, or Vegas update that finally made it stable, but one did.

mikelinton wrote on 7/26/2019, 1:07 PM

@JoeAustin Yah, we've had crashing issues on multiple machines with Vegas for years. There are some projects that crash immediately when you try and render. It's the same error that's been occurring since I don't know when, Maybe Vegas 9. Fatal exception error, OFX, GPU, DirectX. Been on multiple GPUs, different motherboard/CPU combos. Doesn't matter. Sony/Magix must have about 1000 crash log files from us by now.