malowz wrote on 5/22/2014, 4:01 AM
when adobe changed to subscription model, they said is best for the user.

2 things i wondered: i never heard of a complain before about the buying model, and how hard is to keep the old one and add the new one?

surely, the only way to please everyone is to have both. otherwise, is to pleasure them, not customers.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 5/22/2014, 5:51 AM
It's nice to see that some of the people in that thread have switched to Vegas Pro after Adobe started their subscription model. Sony should jump all over this with a new campaign: "Software you can own not rent!", "Yours for now... yours forever", "Don't get locked into monthly fees, own your tools" ;-)

TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/22/2014, 6:15 AM
See, no matter what, the grass is always greener on the other side. :)
Dexcon wrote on 5/22/2014, 6:21 AM
A good idea, JohnnyRoy. Borrowing from some local ad slogans, "Vegas Pro ... edit away ... no more to pay", or "No subscription fees ... ever!", could be added to your suggestions.

Right now is a great marketing opportunity for SCS with Vegas Pro.


Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16 Edit, Vegas Pro 17 Edit, Vegas Pro 18, Vegas Pro 19 Edit, Vegas Pro 20 Edit, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, BCC 2023, Mocha Pro 2022.5.1, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 9, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD

D drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

E & F drives: 2 x 2TB Barracuda HDDs 2.5"


Chienworks wrote on 5/22/2014, 10:01 AM
Well, "yours forever ... until Microsoft releases an incompatible version of Windows that won't run it anymore." Hence why so many of us still have XP machines running, and in some cases even Win98SE or even Win3.1.

I still occasionally get calls to make some changes to software i wrote under 3.1. While the compiled .exe files themselves still run perfectly fine even under Win7, the users are still running it under 3.1 and if i compile under 7 or XP or 98, the resulting .exe file won't run on their 3.1 machines.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/22/2014, 12:05 PM
But we can still run that version of Windows and Vegas. Since it's not a force upgrade to an incompatible version like other companies. ;)
K-Decisive wrote on 5/22/2014, 2:48 PM
When I went to upgrade to After Effects 6 I was being directed by the site to all the Creative cloud stuff. Knowing this was an issue, I ended up starting a chat with Adobe support and they redirected me to the (somewhat hidden) page where I could get a full non-CC upgrade to AE6.

Maybe the same is available for Premiere.
Steve Mann wrote on 5/22/2014, 11:08 PM
It's no secret. There's still a lot of Premiere and Photoshop CS6 packages available, "while supplies last". Just Google Premiere CS6. Even Amazon has it for sale.

Oh, you said upgrade... That will on;y be from Adobe. Care to share the URL?
Spectralis wrote on 5/22/2014, 11:47 PM
This is a new problem that hasn't affected owned software before. Now those on subs not only have to worry about their installed software crashing and then corrupting files but also their subscription crashing and corrupting files. It's like when those really intrusive copy protection systems go wrong and mangle projects and the installation itself. Thankfully Vegas has neither. Now there are more layers of potential corruption to worry about despite Adobe and other sub fans claiming their model makes life easier.
musicvid10 wrote on 5/23/2014, 8:46 AM
I've got Win98SE, XP Pro, and Vista computers sitting around, and other than replacing a few cannibalized parts, can be booted to run legacy applications. Kind of fun!
JohnnyRoy wrote on 5/24/2014, 6:10 AM
> "Hence why so many of us still have XP machines running, and in some cases even Win98SE or even Win3.1."

You know you don't need to keep a computer around to do that. You can just use virtualization like the VMware or the free VirtualBox to run your old OS on your current computer.

Here is Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 running on the desktop of my MacBook Pro at the same time:

I can boot any OS I need for the support of old software.

(Note the Vegas Pro 13.0 icon in my dock! I run Vegas Pro 13.0 seamlessly on my Mac desktop with VMware Fusion)

Terje wrote on 5/25/2014, 3:44 AM

>> that hasn't affected owned software before

Just for the record, unless you are a software developer, you have never owned software before. Ever. Also, in the majority of cases, if you use commercial software, the owner of the software has reserved the right for him to revoke your license of his software for any reason at any time. If he ever does, you are no longer legally allowed to run that software.

Just for the record.
Spectralis wrote on 5/25/2014, 8:22 AM
Actually, in the EU we do "own" the software and a company selling software would need to legally justify revoking a legitimate customer's license. Not only that, a purchaser of the license is legally entitled to resell that license to another purchaser as long as the original purchaser doesn't continue to use the software after resale. This includes everything that came with the license such as support and updates until the next full version for example. It doesn't matter what the company stipulates in its license agreement - that doesn't override EU laws.

I assume this ruling would apply to software subscriptions too (e.g. someone decides to sell a years sub after six months.)
_Lenny_ wrote on 5/25/2014, 8:46 AM
Thanks for the information and link. Very useful
[r]Evolution wrote on 5/28/2014, 9:32 AM
Although I am NOT happy w/ the Subscription model... I AM VERY HAPPY w/ Premiere Pro CC!
rbi wrote on 5/28/2014, 10:26 AM
Have you compared feature to feature and ease of use between Vegas and Premiere? I have so many crash encounters with Vegas (even now with V13 install on brand new machine) that lost time with no solution has me lost. I've heard good things about Premiere (forgetting about subscription model) and wonder if I'd be happy switching. The main thing holding me back is investment in add ons - I have more money in those than Vegas. I love Vegas, but I hate the "Stopped Working Screen".
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/28/2014, 11:37 AM
It's strange you'd buy Vegas 13 & not demo it first to see if the issue you have were fixed. ;)

But, the only time I've had show stopping issues with Vegas (across 4 different customized desktops & two laptops) have been driver or Os update related. That's because where there was a show stopping issue with Vegas (5) I didn't upgrade, so it was a "non"-issue for me. :)

You'll hear horror and praise stories for both.
OldSmoke wrote on 5/28/2014, 12:46 PM

And what have you tried to solve your problem?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

VidMus wrote on 5/28/2014, 2:44 PM
Got the following in an Email ad today.

"Effective June 1, 2014, Adobe will not offer Creative Suite 6 software under the Cumulative Licensing Program (CLP) or Transactional Licensing Program (TLP).

Creative Cloud will be the exclusive source for future innovation for Adobe creative tools. Now is the time to consider the move to Creative Cloud!"

Old news?
Chienworks wrote on 5/28/2014, 2:57 PM
jr, yes, i use VirtualBox on my new laptop to host older Windows sessions. But, the point is, i do have to host older Windows sessions.
Jvidiot wrote on 5/30/2014, 2:28 AM
So, Adobe's new slogan could be:

Extortionware, now available in the cloud! (Only)


You wouldn't want anything to happen to your projects...

Terje wrote on 5/30/2014, 4:13 AM
>> Extortionware

I don't get this. Honestly, I don't. I pay less for Adobe software now than I did in the past. Not only that, but I have access to far more of it than I ever did. More software for a lower price. Seems good to me. If the licensing cost of Adobe makes it hard to run your business, you have far more pressing problems than those you get from Adobe.

As I've said before, as software matures, the amount of new features you can add is reduced significantly. Most people have not needed (feature wise) to upgrade their word processing software since Word for Windows 2.0. For decades we have been updating software for the new features, what happens when we don't need the new features. Then your vendor can only survive with new sales, which no software vendor can in the long run, or they can move to a subscription model. That is one out of two, and no other alternatives.

So, then the question comes to you: Do you want your vendor to survive or do you not care? SCS has stopped developing a number of their product lines. DVD Architect is dead and will (most likely) not be resurrected, the Acid Pro product line is dead and will certainly not be resurrected. Both product lines have existing customers asking for new features (better Blu-Ray for DVDA and a general update for Acid Pro, particularly a 64 bit version). Not going to happen.

A subscription model might have brought in enough revenue to keep those products alive, a standard licensing model didn't.

If your livelihood is dependent on a vendor, the two of you are more or less in a symbiotic relationship. Neither wins when the other dies. If SCS goes down you might run a business that now has to start planning on re-training 20 staff. That's a significant cost to any business. The Adobe subscription cost is not even significant to an individual. Any business suffering under the Adobe licensing cost is on life support anyway.
VidMus wrote on 5/30/2014, 8:09 AM
@ Terje

For a business that depends/benefits from Adobe products the subscription licensing model makes sense (especially if it works correctly) and as you said, it makes sense for Adobe as well. For those like me where this is an expensive hobby, it does not make sense at all, at least in the way Adobe has set it up. Maybe a business level subscription and a hobby level subscription would be better?

For SCS there is a need for continued revenue. How to continue support for them and count on continued support for me? Maybe some kind of semi-subscription/standard licensing model? Maybe an extra low price subscription model for all of the NLE related software's that SCS has in one package deal and a standard model for individual software's?

When one thinks about the frequency of upgrades that SCS has, even a person like me where this is an expensive hobby, I can put back money each month to save up for the next upgrade. So if that were x amount per year, how much would that be in a subscription per month? Lets see, $150.00 divided by 12 equals $12.50 per month with a discount being $12.00 a month?

And if I could benefit from ALL of the related software's that SCS sells, then would that not also benefit me even more by making it more affordable for my limited budget? And then with continued support for DVDA and other software's, would that not also be of benefit for me?

When done properly, I can see a lot of benefits to having a subscription model for both SCS AND myself. The key is doing it properly.

The last NLE I used bit the dust because too many users were using older versions and not upgrading to the latest version. The income was not enough for the company to continue to justify support for that NLE.

Seeing that a number of people here talk about still using older versions of Vegas and not upgrading, it worries me if SCS can afford to continue with the current model.

Sooner or later, something has got to give!

So my question is, what will work for both SCS and me? What will provide them with a steady income and also meet my needs? I think this is something very serious to think about.

I DO NOT want to have to re-learn another NLE again, especially when Vegas meets my needs almost perfectly.

The reality is, SCS IS a business and has to have continued profits or they cannot continue to exist. Something that allows them continued profits and provide support for me is essential. This is NOT an option!