Not safely removing firewire drives fries boot sector!!!

kleb wrote on 11/15/2003, 7:49 PM
Firewire users beware...

I just recently lost my 120GB drive and having it RMA'd. Only recovered 10% data before the drive completely fried!!!!

Also... I just found a thread that was very revealing...

"Windows does 'delayed writes' to disk drives and if you unplug a firewire drive without clicking on the system tray icon in the taskbar to 'safely remove hardware' you can corrupt the drive."

What do the experts say about this? Everyone should take note as many of us are moving to very large 'firewire' data storage systems for our work!

Kurt

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/15/2003, 8:23 PM
destroying a drive or even an OS depends on a few things:
1. How you have dismount set up on your PC
2. Chipset in controller/housing.

Also, if you dismount/disconnect the drive while it's still spinning, it can nail you too. Either way, every owners manual for a drive kit I've seen, tells you to dismount the hardware. Could be worse. If you have a Mac and don't eject/dismount the drive, it can screw your OS as well.
Maxtors, Belkins, Lacie, Giga, All4DVD seem to have the most reported issues on this, based on forums and personal experience. ADS, Kingston, Cyberdrive, Unibrain kits don't seem to have very many problems at all.
When working with Firewire drives:
Never unplug any FireWire device that is being actively accessed by the operating system (such as a file copy).
(from my book on Apple's Soundtrack application)
johnmeyer wrote on 11/15/2003, 8:28 PM
Spot's advice applies to any external device, whether connected via USB, Firewire, or PCMCIA card.

The specific problem of delayed writes can be eliminated by simply turning this feature off in Windows. Where this is done depends on what flavor (95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP) you are using. The Microsoft Knowledgebase should be your first stop for answers to any such quesiton:

Microsoft Knowledgebase

On some versions, you can disable delayed writes on the drive from the properties tab of each drive (in Device Manager).
kleb wrote on 11/15/2003, 9:26 PM
Thanks for the posts...

How do you have dismount set up on your PC?

I'm using a P4 3.0, XP Pro with ADS Pyro 1394 kit

Kurt
filmy wrote on 11/15/2003, 9:40 PM
On XP Pro a little icon will atomaticly appear in the taskbar's "notification" area whenever something new happens - in the case of an external drive that icon will stay there until you dismount it. You don't need to install anything, it is all automatic. When you want to diasbale thatdrive you just use the icon and you will get a pop up asking you what you want to shut down/dis-mount.
BillyBoy wrote on 11/15/2003, 10:18 PM
The fly in the ointment is SOME firewire drives, in MY experience the Maxtor external, is notorious and under some situations prevents you from safely unmounting it.

In other words you're not given a chance to safely unmount, Windows can hang as a result, or the icon normally in the notification area is either MIA or none fuctional. If that happens you have no choice other than to do a forced shutdown by pulling the plug or hitting the PC's off switch. This could result in lost of data, meaning one or more corrupted files, lost clusters, cross linked files or a scambled file allocation table. I was lucky in that I never lost data, but it probably was just a matter of time before that did happen.

SPOT's experience and some others are talking about firewire ENCLOSERS, which apparenly are more reliable.
Caruso wrote on 11/27/2003, 3:50 PM
Forgive me for reposting - but this is the thread I to which I was looking to respond - and, so, my response and my recent experience follows:

I know this is an old topic. There was an even more pertinent thread more recently, but I cannot seem to find it now. That thread was a warning concerning data loss as a result of WinXP flashing a write behind error. I recall the poster mentioned that the drive was no longer accessible, and that he lost all his data.

Well, I thought to myself after reading his post, that I had never encountered such a problem - I run three maxtor 80 gig units and two ADS enclosures.

Today, my firewire daisy chain inexplicably acted up on me - had trouble making all five drives show up in WinXPPro. I could dismount them all, then reconnect anyone of them, and I would get that reassuring ga-ding from windows notifying me of the "new" firewire device.

Kept persisting in my efforts until finally, all five drives were online. Experienced a write-behind error message from out of the blue, then, discovered that my most important folder on the affected drive was reported as no longer accessible - data no longer present - or something like that.

First thing I did was to simply walk away from my setup for a few minutes to relax and take control of my mounting frustration and feelings of despair. Then, I rebooted, and let Windows to its disk checking routine (I usually hit a key to cancel that operation).

Windows checked my D drive (that's the drive where WinXP is installed on my machine), and the problem drive. Found no errors in either, but, after running the check, my boot sequence went smoothly, and the drive was totally accissible once again.

I mention it here in hopes that someone else who experiences my problem might spare themsleves a great deal of frustration. Hope this helps.

Caruso
donp wrote on 11/27/2003, 5:30 PM
I recenty peychased an enclusure from the Firewire Direct web site is is an Oxford3 firewire and USB2. I had a power failure a couple of nights ago and didn't have the external drive plugged into the correct side of my UPS box and the external drive just stoopped. It was not unplugged. When the power came back on I turned everything else on and the Firewire external drive came back with no problem. I read another thread on thei forum about the Oxford system and it seem to be dependable.