Now I do have a problem about plugins

JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/4/2009, 7:01 AM

> ...should I be modernizing the OS? Or re-installing XP?

I would contact Sony Tech support and see if they can help first. I believe they have a way of getting a dump of what's been loaded and can possibly find the trouble spot. It may actually be a DirectX plug-in that's causing the hang and not DirectX itself.

I really feel for you because my XP partition is very flaky too. I've been using Vista 64 lately so it hasn't been a top priority and I've already pre-ordered Windows 7 and plan to dump Vista as soon as my Windows 7 discs arrive. I know that I rarely go 2 years without rebuilding my XP partition because it gets so unstable. I usually re-install XP right over itself and sometimes that clears things up and there's no need to re-install any applications. If that doesn't work, it's time to format and start over. Obviously have a complete backup of your system before you do anything this drastic.

I also perform an incremental backup of my system every day. If something suddenly stops working, I can go back to yesterday, or last week, or last month. If you are not backing up every day, you are asking for trouble. Hard drives are cheap... lost time is not.

~jr

Serena wrote on 9/4/2009, 4:30 PM

Thanks JR. I have requested Sony tech assistance but very slow in responding. When the problem first arose I sent them a an error dump but I suspect they looked no further than "splash screen" and sent me to that standard response. Although I pointed out that DirectX was uptodate, they offered no other ideas at that time. So I kept working with V8 until I decided to fastidiously work through their standard answer. Maybe they'll come back to me. Otherwise more drastic action! And yes, I back up the work but not the OS -- rely on restore points.

VidMus wrote on 9/5/2009, 12:12 AM

Serena Says, " I back up the work but not the OS -- rely on restore points."

I learned a long time ago that the only thing good to do with restore points is to turn them off and save the hard drive space! I once had a situation where not only did the restore point(s) did not help but just made everything much worse! That's when I stopped counting on the restore points and started looking at clone solutions.

I use a software called Casper to make clones of my boot and data drives so if the bad should happen I can simply drop in a clone drive and be back to where I was as if nothing ever happened. Well, at least no more loss since the last time I made a clone backup. Which isn't long...

Earlier today I tried an update to the chipset driver and it trashed the whole thing. Got out my clone drive that I made a clone to just before I tried the new driver and was back to normal. Otherwise I would have had to start over and re-install the whole thing!

I know all of this doesn't help your current situation much but when you do get everything where you want it, get something and make multiple clones of your boot drive as well as backups of your data drive.

A video system should have at least 3 active drives. One for the boot, a second one for the data and a third one as the work drive. The boot and data drives should have at least two clones of them!

It is possible to trash a clone drive and a drive being cloned while trying to make a backup and then if you had only one clone drive you are out of luck.

A few minutes making a clone(s) can save many hours and headaches of lost time and data!

Danny Fye
www.vidmus.com

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 9/5/2009, 12:30 AM

DirectX can be a problem. If you think because you have DirectX 10 installed then you are are upto date, think again. I learned this when intalling Bluff Titler. I had to install an earlier ver of 9 before it will work. Then I installed 9c.

What I gather is that DirectX10 is a different program that lies in its own folder. So you have to install both because DirectX10 is not an upgrade.

Serena wrote on 9/5/2009, 1:01 AM

Its DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904) that I've got installed. Look right?

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 9/5/2009, 9:22 AM

DirectX 9c is the latest DirectX for version 9 but you may have to install the earlier version before it may work.

Try this: go here and install or download "their" directX then install DirectX 9c afterwards.

http://www.outerspace-software.com/download.html

TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/5/2009, 10:52 AM

there's various versions of 9c. The latest is 4.09.0000.0904 (the one you have Serena).

When Vegas 9 gave you trouble & you uninstalled the trail, did 8 have any issues then or did you just uninstall? Reinstalling 8 would fix anything that got killed with 9 being uninstalled. Can you try running 8 before you go to bed & then see what (if any) error message actually pops up? How long have you waited before you terminated the process?

lynn1102 wrote on 9/5/2009, 3:48 PM

Serena, Just a stab in the dark here. I have an XP PRO machine using an older version of Vegas. I have a Panasonic DV tape deck that I use for capture. If I act too fast sometime and turn on the tape deck before the system boots up completely, it will go thru all the motions until it get to that last step where the screen blacks out. It will set there for 15 or 20 minutes before it finishes loading. The system loads fine if I turn on the tape deck after xp loads.
Did you add any new hardware lately?

Lynn

Serena wrote on 9/5/2009, 4:30 PM

Last night I switched off and went out to a film, so now you've given me some things to try. I've purchased Casper (the restore point didn't get v8 working). I purchased v9 (rather than trial) and the problem occurred on first load, but v8 continued working without problem. I did several uninstall/re-install of v9 (following the Sony splash screen failure answer), but since people were reporting bugs in v9 I decided to wait for later versions. v9b gave same result. Haven't added any hardware to the system. I don't have my editing system on the web, so having a bit of time I thought to have another go and let MS update the OS with all those security patches etc and to ensure DirectX etc was indeed current. The result didn't affect v9 behaviour but caused the same failure in v8 and even stopped v7 at loading audio plugins (at splash screen).
So I'll have a look at the DirectX business (Lightads) and reinstall v8 (TheHappyFriar) and perhaps v7 and see what happens. I have yet to reinstall XP.

Serena wrote on 9/6/2009, 5:50 AM

Well, I've managed to get v7 going again, which is progress of a sort. Otherwise v8 & v9 stll stick on loading DirectX plugins. Hopefully Sony will suggest something new (I resubmitted the problem in the hope they'll think about it)..

backlit wrote on 11/2/2009, 9:55 AM

Serena,

Did Sony ever resolve this issue? I'm interested since I now have the same problem with 7.0e, 8.0c, and 9.0c. I am really frustrated since I spent the last two days trying to correct the issue. It began after 8.0c crashed without notice during a render to track of a clip that had been stabilized with Mercali.

I could not rename the shared plug in folder due to open files, even after a clean reboot. I don't use 7.0 much anymore so I decided to reinstall it rather than 8 mainly to save reinstalling all my plugins. It fixed the problem! To elaborate, I uninstalled 7 and then installed it again clean and now 8 and 9 don't hang on the directx plugin init.

But there is a catch, I had deleted some keys in the registry relating to the audio plugins in the shared plugin directory. I had tested 8 after doing so and it still hung. So after correcting the problem with the 7 reinstall, I restored my registry from a backup I had made before the key deletions and my hangs returned. So as it stands I think the problem is somewhere in the registry. I would love to hear what Sony suggested to you.

Thanks,
David

backlit wrote on 11/5/2009, 8:42 AM

Just to follow up on my last post in case some finds this thread with the search engine.

I did not get a reply from anyone on this problem. I was able to correct it by uninstalling all resident versions of Vegas on the machine (7,8,and9). Then reinstalled 8 and 9 and they all work. I don't know which file, if any, was corrupted but I can say that if there was file corruption, in my case it wasn't in the "shared plugins" folder.

Good luck and I hope it doesn't happen to you... The problem stole nearly two days of my schedule.

David

ingvarai wrote on 11/5/2009, 9:18 AM

>in case some finds this thread with the search engine
I wish all people participating here wold use a topic title identifying the problem. I have recently had the same issue, but this topic title did not make me open this thread.. "Now I have a problem".. Who hasn't?

This problem is most certainly related to a Sony Creative specific issue. I have used and made software for almost 15 years (I am a programmer) and the Sony applications are the only who seem to have this. It is all about registry key permissions. I do not know if this happens during installation, or during normal use - it just happens.

We get all kinds of stupid errors. Like being unable to run the program because it "Requires administrator privileges", even when I am the very administrator of my PC. And now this with DirectX plug-ins. I had the same two days ago. And yes - I was busy struggling with this "access denied" issue for the third time. When this happens, use Regedit and open HKEY_CURRENT_USER and Software and try to right click "Sony Creative". This is often enough to confirm there is a problem, you will get messages telling you that you have no right to open the key.

In the case of DirectX plug-ins, they just don't register with Windows, even when using regsvr32 directly. The error message code indicates insufficient access rights, which seems to be Sony C's trade mark..

In the last case, even performing the total uninstall and then the "clean install" as advised by Sony did not help.
So I finally had to reformat my harddisk and reinstall Vista 64 completely. I started at 8 PM and was done at 5 the next morning. I have tons of applications, and I also had to download 550 + 750 Mb and install SP1 and SP 2 from the Microsoft site. Before this, I had struggled with the issue for weeks, trying to remember which Vegas opens which plug-ins.

I am getting nervous and inadvertently am on the alert always when firing up Sound Forge, DVDA, CDA or Vegas, halfway waiting for a message to pop up, telling me that I have insufficient rights.. Did I pay for the machine? Did I pay for Windows? Did I pay for all Sony Creative Software and plug-ins?
Yes + Yes + Yes. So what more do I need to accomplish, to earn my rights, rights to use my software?

I HATE these issues with the Sony Creative applications.
I LOVE the Sony Creative applications when they function properly, I can't live without them.
Ingvar

farss wrote on 11/5/2009, 12:14 PM

I had an interesting problem with a WinXP system yesterday that may provide some input for you to think about. I know very little about this and as I didn't fix the problem myself some of this may not be entirely correct.

My initial problem seemed simple enough, I'd gotten the system into a state where I could not access the desktop settings other than to change the Theme. I was logged in as an Administrator.

Fixing this took quite a while, thank goodness for logmein!
Things I learned watching my tech fix this remotely:

1) Group Policies can mess with what an Admin equivalent can do.
2) Running gpedit.msc did not let us fix the problem, the settings that needed changing were not even visible.
3) We then tried logging in as Administrator, still no joy.
4) Ultimately the problem was resolved by adding a new registry key while logged in as Admin. Then we got access to the group policies that we needed to change to get control back.

If this sounds like it might give you some clues as to how to rescue a system without doing a bare metal install let me know and I'll try to get some more details. I was distracted during the final stages of this getting fixed plus too much was happening too quickly for me to make good mental notes.

Bob.

ingvarai wrote on 11/5/2009, 12:35 PM

Bob,
I have always had my own PC and have never been particularly interested in group policies etc. You have a point here, for sure. I knew about it, but forgot it when I was busy with all this.
In any case, a rebirth is not only a bad thing, out with my old OS also went a lot of garbage and dust that had piled up in the corners.
What I have done now, is to use Acronis to make disk images of my complete OS, saving me a lot of time if this ever happens again.
BTW, I have not heard of logmein before now, tx.
Ingvar

apit34356 wrote on 11/5/2009, 2:05 PM

Inqvaria, you can rest for sure that Sony does not aggrestive "anti-privacy" that screws with the system. But I have found that anti-virus, anti-malware can remove a valid key that a plugtin use or worst yet, clever malware steals a valid key and uses it to hide itself. Running a register cleaner before installion can help.

I do not like re-installing MS OS's simply because its a massive job re-installing 100's of app, some are extremely touchy and required a special code for date,pc, vitrual network codes........ sometimes called seats.

miiror images are great except for crashed drives........

Serena wrote on 11/5/2009, 2:38 PM

Apologies for the vague subject title! I have learned a little more about computers, these being tools I find extremely useful but I have little interest in their internal workings. Guess I should be using Apple. Anyway, I spent some time on making sure my off-line machine was fully uptodate on XP, ghosting C drive, reinstalling Sony software and not progressing the problem. Reinstalling XP was the final suggestion that made me wait until Windows 7 was released. An interesting time, but all learning is useful. Fortunately my production work has not involved intensive post (the laptop sufficed).

jrazz wrote on 11/5/2009, 6:26 PM

Serena,

I had a similar issue a while back (version 7 or 6) where it would stick on the splash screen. I found out that it was my camera. If I had it plugged in via firewire and then tried to start Vegas it would hang. If I turned the camera off and then opened Vegas all was well.

Once I figured out the culprit all was well until one day it did it again without the camera hooked up. I then started unplugging all my externals that were firewire and it still didn't work. I then started unplugging my USB drives and it was one of my Memory sticks that was causing the hang. Once that was unplugged I was good to go again.

This may or may not be your issue as I think mine was hanging on the "Loading UI" part, but who knows!

j razz

musicvid10 wrote on 11/8/2009, 7:28 AM

Serena, I just dropped in on this discussion, but your problem is one that I had a long time ago, and wanted to share my solution:

1) Start with a happy installation of DirectX 9c, which you seem to have (you can run dxdiag from the command prompt to be sure.

2) Reinstall your video drivers.

3) find the "Shared Plug-Ins" folder in your Sony installation, and rename it to something else, i.e., "Shared Plug-InsOLD."

4) Reinstall all of your Sony apps, the easiest way being to do "Repair" installations using the .msi installers in your "Sony Setup" directory.

This approach follows the theory that it is one or more of the plugins, rather than DirectX itself, that is causing the problem. Following that same logic, if this does not solve the problem, the next step is to locate all the DX plugins that have been installed by other programs, and rename the .dll extensions until you find the culprit. In one case, a rogue dvd player app was the culprit.

MPM wrote on 11/8/2009, 9:10 AM

>"I couldn't get Vegas 9 to load passed the DirectX plugins,"

FWIW, when any of the Sony apps 1st loads after install, it parses all of the plug-ins -- audio, video, even those for Movie Maker. From then on it only performs a sort of quick test while loading, until it detects you added another plug-in. Now, when it completely parses these plug-ins it goes pretty in-depth -- **supporting files in the Windows' system folder are opened & read**. Sony apps do not detect every plug-in addition however, so it's entirely possible to rename or temporarily remove plug-ins, then add them back after this sort of full-blown scan. There were a few threads on an incompatible VST plug-in when 7 was newer, somewhere here in the forums if you're interested. Way back when Vista was young I tracked the prob, then caused by the cineform .dll (which was Vista incompatible) going through thousands of lines in process monitor logs. The method still works, but is painful enough it's easier to just go through a process of elimination. Far as devices go, those that are hot plugable start driver processes &/or services when they're plugged in.

[I sort of highlighted the part about supporting files, because in Windows one process often depends on several files, including some that have nothing to do with video or any Sony app. ]

For those jumping to 7 from XP, especially if you're running 7 64, the source of many problems is the now much more restricted registry -- often software can't write to the registry where/when it wants, plus 64 bit Windows means software has to understand the added registry sections that come with 64 bit Windows. Running setup files &/or program files as admin, &/or setting compatibility to Vista or XP is often needed. Your UAC settings can also make a difference -- Windows turns on some file & registry virtualization with UAC on during program installation, & that can make a huge difference with any older software.

MPM wrote on 11/8/2009, 10:23 AM

@JohnnyRoy
>"I know that I rarely go 2 years without rebuilding my XP partition because
>it gets so unstable. I usually re-install XP..."

FWIW in over a decade I've never had to re-install Windows on our machines unless there's a massive difference in hardware after a hardware re-build/upgrade [i.e. AGP to pci-e], & then only because I didn't want the registry clogged further than the Windows' norm. That's NOT to say you or anyone else is doing anything wrong -- I only want to point out a common [& very un-true] myth, that re-installing Windows is basic & necessary maintenance. If you want to fix Windows when it's misbehaving, it's possible if you want to -- if you'd rather re-install, that's your choice & cool too. ;-)

------------

@VidMus
>"I learned a long time ago that the only thing good to do with restore points
>is to turn them off and save the hard drive space!"

In XP it can *sometimes* help, but it's definitely worthwhile in Vista/7 to have the shadow copies on (System Restore), if for no other reason than easy access to older file versions with Shadow Explorer. Depending on how you work it may be rarely needed, but when it is, it is.

>"I use a software called Casper to make clones of my boot and data drives"

For apps, Windows, & normal data making disc image backups works well, takes up less room, and can be done rather quickly. Myself I do image backups fairly frequently to an internal drive, & less frequently copy that to external drives &/or discs in case of catastrophic loss. For many large video/audio files there's always disk mirroring, where everything entered on 1 disk is also entered on another. For greater redundancy you can always transfer backups &/or mirrored drive contents over a network during off hours or in the background -- there's software just for that. If/when you need [near] immediate access to redundant files or even the OS, there's virtualization where a drive/partition & all it's contents (including OS) is stored in one file -- rather than restore anything, you just swap a copy of that file & you're in business.

--------------

@backlit
>correcting the problem with the 7 reinstall, I restored my registry from a
>backup I had made before the key deletions and my hangs returned. So as
>it stands I think the problem is somewhere in the registry."

Won't do you any good now probably, but I try to record the registry changes made with every install of anything. Regshot2 works well with 7 64, recording changes and supplying you with a file you can import into the registry. In this case those could have added back what you needed for your plugs, or you might have avoided the re-install by deleting the Sony stuff & re-adding.

----------------

@ingvarai
>"In the case of DirectX plug-ins, they just don't register with Windows, even
>when using regsvr32 directly."

If it helps, 1st off use the compatibility setting in Vista/7 -- you can right click an .exe file & go to properties, or right click & select run as admin, or you can set the shortcut to run as admin. 7 further has a so-called Super Admin account that can be activated [Google for plenty on that].

Registering files in Vista/7 64 is more difficult because 32 bit apps are registered from the Windows\SysWOW64 folder, 64 bit apps from System32 -- each has it's own regsvr32 app. Regdrop.exe still works in 7 64 for 32 bit stuff, but has to be set to run as admin -- the easiest way to register files. For 64 bit, use search to bring up cmd & run as admin, then navigate to System32 folder & run regsvr32 from there. Otherwise haven't found anything that didn't register so far -- that Does Not mean the app that uses any given DX file can correctly read the added registry sections with 64 bit Windows -- that's where compatibility settings come in, & they'll usually make things right.

>"So I finally had to reformat my harddisk and reinstall Vista 64 completely."

Windows can get garbaged up -- no doubting that -- but reinstalling Windows is very often over-used as a catch-all rather than diagnosing/fixing any problem. At the very least, back up your Windows install -- it beats re-installing by a long shot.

--------------------

@apit34356
>"Running a register cleaner before installion can help."

Make a backup using ERUNT 1st [check the on-site FAQ for 7 compatibility], & read the ERUNT docs... Cleaners can work, or not, & with ERUNT you can put things back even if/when Windows won't fire up.

>"miiror images are great except for crashed drives"

Create a backup disc image & store it somewhere else. You can take it further, make it more efficient by partitioning drives -- an image backup of a partition with software that rarely changes rarely has to be refreshed or redone. Windows often changes but once a month after the Tuesday updates. Data that's too large to efficiently back up with an image, like TB(s) of video, can be stored on 2 or more drives simultaneously using drive mirroring.