Options other than Cineform for DI's

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/13/2015, 11:02 AM

So I"m testing Catalyst as all of a sudden the GoPro Studio software I've been using for who knows how long is now throwing error messages when I try to transcode my Canon DSLR footage to Cineform. Up until yesterday, I have had no issues transcoding using the app but now it no longer works and apparently it was never meant to transcode anything other than GoPro footage from what I was told by GoPro tech support.

Now I'm needing to find another solution to future proof my longer form projects workflow. Given the nature of highly compressed file formats that come out of the Canon DSLR's and the impact it has on playback on the timeline, what DI options would others recommend to maintain proper gamma, and image quality? I've stuck with Cineform for the longest time as it has just worked for me and apparently from what I was told, GoPro is discontinuing the more advanced apps and focusing strictly on GoPro cameras and their app working only with that camera.

I use to edit with DNxHD but from the looks of Catalyst, it will not allow maintaining native 4K resolution when transcoding to DNxHD and I'm not keen on using it due to the gamma shift issues I've experienced in the past when transcoding to that format.

What options should I be considering to replace Cineform? Catalyst doesn't provide an option to encode to AVI so that's out. Any other options for transcoding other than Catalyst on Windows? I'd like to stick with Cineform if possible but I'm getting the feeling it's going by the wayside according to the emails and phone calls I've had with GoPro.

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/13/2015, 11:16 AM

Well, there is a free version of the Cineform Codec coming with the free GoPro studio. I see no reason why that should not be used also in future. Maybe they withdraw that free GoPro studio version - but as far as I know it is still available for download, and installs the codec in your system.

I use that to edit UHD footage from the Atomos Shogun in 10bit 422 - what is maintained also in the Cineform codec since Vegas is able to decode Cineform with 10bit.

The tool that I use to transcode the clips is TMPGenc - what works fine if the Shogun footage is shoot with 16..235 with my GH4.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/13/2015, 12:33 PM

Well this seems to by system specific as I installed GoPro Studio on my laptop and was able to convert my clips. The only thing I had done to my workstation is install a Radeon HD6970 card and the Catalyst drivers and ever since, it now errors out. Not too comforting as it means I will probably have to reinstall EVERYTHING from scratch including Windows. Not something I wanted to do given I need to be editing instead of troubleshooting my primary editing workstation.

ddm wrote on 2/13/2015, 12:53 PM

Interesting that you used to be able to transcode Canon files in GoPro Studio. I have never been able to, and I've tried it on at least 3 machines. It can read the mov's fine, just won't render. Catalyst Browse won't recognize my canon files either, but Catalyst Prepare does. I've never bothered transcoding my canon files as Vegas has never given me any problems with them (knock on wood). As far as your Radeon issue, it seems rather apocalyptic to have to reinstall your whole OS because you changed out your video card. Sorry I don't have any suggestions offhand, but that seems quite drastic. Anyway, I DO feel your pain.

John222 wrote on 2/13/2015, 6:30 PM

I have a 6870 video card with catalyst. The current version of gopro studio would not work with it. To my knowledge, they locked it up so people like us can't use the cineform codec. So I found an earlier version of gopro software and the codec works just fine.

A-Scott wrote on 2/13/2015, 7:40 PM

@John222: Don't know if this has anything to do with your problem, but a recent version of GoPro is missing a file that enables Cineform encoding on Win7x64.

This thread will explain (and solve): http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/525696-encoding-cineform-avis-free-gopro-studio.html

Worked for me as I replaced my outdated NeoScene with the free version of GoPro Studio.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/13/2015, 10:25 PM

Tried the fix, no-Go with GoPro - still throwing error messages when trying to convert Canon DSLR clips to Cineform AVI - looks like I'm going to have to reinstall everything as it now appears to be a lockout from having installed the Catalyst drivers on my desktop machine - EPICFAIL!

Funny thing is I have no issues converting to Cineform within Adobe Media Encoder CS6 but the whole purpose was to move away from Adobe, not stay with it. Now it's basically reinstall everything or stay with Adobe. Not caring for either one of those options.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/14/2015, 10:56 AM

Update: Did a system restore from an image I created in January before I had tested the radeon card and catalyst software. GoPro Studio now works without issue. It appears that the Radeon card/Catalyst software disables the ability to convert any clips to Cineform. I am going to create an updated system image after installing the latest windows updates and try the radeon card again to confirm my suspicions but this again doesn't bode well given the move across the board to Open CL for many NLE apps. If the GoPro desktop app truly is broken by the Radeon/Catalyst setup, what other DI options are there? DNxHD is not really viable considering how badly Quicktime is crippled on Windows. Have tried the Catalyst app from Sony in rendering DNxHD clips in an mxf wrapper but neither Vegas nor Ppro CS6 recognizes the files.

OldSmoke wrote on 2/14/2015, 12:19 PM

Maybe having both cards in the system? Install the Radeon card first, then the Nvidia card and then GoPro Studio? Also when you install the catalyst software, you might want to disable the quick transcode option, maybe this is what causes the Cineform breakdown?

John222 wrote on 2/14/2015, 1:20 PM

What A-S out said is correct the in my case. But the only way to get mine to work was install an older version of gopro.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/14/2015, 2:20 PM

@OldSMoke - TBH, I'm not sure what to do as I just got my system restored and having to install the rest of my software from the system image backup I did back in January and I'm feeing sketchy around messing with it any more. Things are working the way they're suppose to be now and I can just see installing the card and having my primary conversion tool quit working again.

Anyone out there who is Radeon/Catalyst drivers based using GoPro Studio successfully?

@John222 - I tried versions going all the way back to 1.0.2 GoPro Studio and always got the same error message. And that included trying to convert my Hero4 Silver cameras footage so it was definitely an issue from the Catalyst Graphics card drivers as I could run the app on my laptop with no issues at all.

OldSmoke wrote on 2/14/2015, 3:17 PM

Anyone out there who is Radeon/Catalyst drivers based using GoPro Studio successfully?

What do you consider successfully? I do have GoPro Studio and Hero4. Anything I can test for you?

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/14/2015, 6:24 PM

@OldSMoke - if you can actually render to Cineform AVI's using the Catalyst drivers on your setup using GoPro Studio- I'm wondering then what caused my inability to convert within GoPro Studio given all I had done was test and then remove the Radeon card and Catalyst drivers.

Having just reinstalled my Sony software, I'm getting the proverbial can't register online for my copy of Sound Forge due to SCS being closed on the weekends and since no one is available via online chat, online registration doesn't work for me either through the SCS site. I have to wait til Monday otherwise I'd have a new system image done and would give the Radeon card a proper try.

OldSmoke wrote on 2/14/2015, 6:35 PM

@Cliff
I managed to render out to AVI but only up to HD. The 4K XAVCS files from my AX100 chaused an error. I also noticed that 1080 60p files from my AX100 have no audio but maybe because these are XAVCS too? GoPro and normal AVCHD files are working fine.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/14/2015, 8:54 PM

I wonder what it was about my setup that caused issues with the GoPro Studio App then? You made mention of some sort of acceleration with the Catalyst software?

John222 wrote on 2/15/2015, 9:32 AM

I'm using GoPro version 1.1.2.100 and 14.12 AMD Catalyst Omega Software

balazer wrote on 5/24/2015, 3:22 AM

I would remux your Canon DSLR .mov files to .mp4, and then read the .mp4 files directly in Vegas. Remuxing means the video is not recompressed, so you don't lose any quality. Vegas decodes .mp4 h.264 files fairly well, so there shouldn't be any need for an intermediate format.

malowz wrote on 5/24/2015, 4:45 PM

Canopus HQ codec perhaps?

i use for almost everything, works perfectly.

john_dennis wrote on 5/24/2015, 6:56 PM

@ Malowz

Are you happy enough with the Canopus HQ codec and confident enough to delete your source files and keep your intermediates as your archive?

wwaag wrote on 5/24/2015, 9:28 PM

Not a silly question at all. I've used a lot of DI's including Canopus HQ. The main problem with archiving is sheer file size. E.g. a 20 sec clip of 1080 60P from a Sony Handycam is 66mb with a bit rate of 25 Mbps. When rendered to Canopus HQ, the file size increases to 965 MB with a bit rate of 383 Mbps, a 15 fold increase. While drive storage is relatively cheap, it's not that "cheap". Aside from the added question of how far into the future those codecs will be available, it's nice to have the "original" footage in the event you want to do something "different" with your footage. Just my nickels worth.

wwaag

musicvid10 wrote on 5/24/2015, 10:09 PM

Agreed, the best copy is a copy.
When compression is useful, not only size, but quality, portability, and speed all come into play.

astar wrote on 5/25/2015, 1:50 AM

DNxHD is not 4k, you want DNxHR for 4k material. I do not think there is a way to compress to DNxHR outside of AVID at the moment. The updated codec set from AVID does include DNxHR playback.

DSLR footage is generally not that high of a bitrate, neither is GoPro footage. I would try XAVC intra as a 4K GoPro intermediate. The Hero4 is only at 60mbs, vs 270mbs of XAVC . For 1080p footage, try one of the following in order of increasing size. XDCAM-EX or 422, XAVC, HDCAM-SR-Lite 422 or SR 444

NormanPCN wrote on 5/25/2015, 2:05 PM

I just tried a DNxHR render in Vegas with the Avid LE 2.6 Quicktime codec installed and it worked. In encoded to High quality 8-bit.

malowz wrote on 5/28/2015, 3:58 AM

@john_dennis

more than enough. i use since i can remember (feels like forever). never had a problem that damaged or caused me problems.

normally i convert and delete original files, cause i have backup in external HD.

i made a batch to copy files from my NEX cam to PC and external backup HD, and then another to convert all files to intermediate outside vegas (faster and multithread) ;)

Canopus HQ all the way. Cineform only got me white hairs. i don't like quicktime cause i like no-recompress and always where slow than .avi

i really like a reason NOT to use Canopus HQ...

@wwaag:
383 Mbps??? Jesus, mines are around 100~150mbps depending on source, as the codec is VBR, and have quality settings.

wwaag wrote on 5/30/2015, 11:05 AM

@Malowz

Those are the numbers. Here a few screenshots from Mediainfo. The subject was a bunch of seagulls in the water--pretty dynamic.

Here's the original source.

Then HQ at Fine setting.

And finally, at Standard setting.