OT: Acid question from a Vegas User

PipelineAudio wrote on 5/14/2003, 10:27 PM
I know theres an Acid forum but you guys are the ones I trust so Ill ask here...

Is anyone getting along well with Acid's piano roll?

Every time SF puts out something, they make it with the quickest, easiest, most customizable and user friendliest interface out there. This piano roll seems to be the exact opposite of SF!

There isnt enough space on SF's FTP for me to list all the weird questions I have about it, but one burning one for m is " how the frick do you change the note names on the piano keys"???

How do you make them into drum names instead?

In fact, how do you make them display note names at all ?

Comments

Rednroll wrote on 5/14/2003, 11:34 PM
Lol!!!
I'm with you on this one Pipe!!! Basically the midi track functions like piano roll suck in Acid. The only thing I've found the midi track features useful for is if you do your sequencing in another program and then save it as a standard midi file and import it into Acid.

Your buddy JoeD criticizes me for still using Opcodes Studio Vision. Don't think I haven't tried Sonar, Logic, or Cubase because I have and they still fall short of Visions user interface and editing power. One of the main features I always look for is very simple. Let's say you have a 16 bar verse. Within that verse you have a 2 bar loop, a 4 bar loop and an 8 bar loop. In Vision you put loop marker around the 2 bar loop, the 4 bar loop and the 8 bar loop, and tell the sequence that they're all suppose to loop for 16 bars. Boom you're done, hit play and it happens. In every other program you have to copy and paste the 2 bar loop for the rest of the duration of 16 bars, the same for the 4 bar and 8 bar loop. If you have a lot of midi tracks this becomes very time consuming. Let's also say I decide to throw a 3 bar loop within that 16 bar verse, just to mix things up a bit. I would have to copy and past that 3 bar loop for the duration of that 16 bars and then cut the excess off at the end. In vision I just create the 3 bar loop and put the loop markers around it......one mouse click.

Hell, I know engineers that still use Cakewalk's DOS based sequencer, because they're familiar with it and it works for them. They sell music tracks for nationally released TV commercials and get paid well for it. So who am I to criticize? MIDI has been around for 20 years, it hasn't changed. It's all about the user interface and Vision's UI works the way I like to work, so until ACID get's features that are similar, that means I will still be using Vision for MIDI and ACId will be generating a midi beat clock that the two programs will sync together with. The good thing about this is that Vision doesn't have any audio features to bog things down. I suggest you find a similar solution for midi features and make your life a bit easier. Right now ACID isn't the answer for midi sequencing.

Red
PipelineAudio wrote on 5/14/2003, 11:55 PM
I only so rarely use MIDI, its just for me messing around by myself, so I dont think I can get a mac to run studiovision around here.

The cubase one seems kinda ok, but the interface is sooooooo SLOOOOOOOOOW and clunky.

I just end up dropping drum samples into acid and writing out the kick and snare by hand, I give up trying to sequence drums in any app...

I just imagined that a MIDI setup from SF would be so unreal perfect and sensible...who do we yell at for this ?
Rednroll wrote on 5/15/2003, 1:00 AM
Actually.....Studio Vision is available for PC. It was a MAC based program, and that's where I first used it. I was running Protools for audio and Vison for MIDI on the MAC side, as was everyone else at that time. Then Opcode released a PC version and that's when I started using Sonic Foundry products, because i wanted to get away from Protools for audio, because I couldn't afford their rediculously priced hardware and I was more a PC person than MAC. The PC version of Vision only had MIDI features. The MAC version was a version ahead of the PC version and started to implement audio features...then Gibson bought them out and the rest is history. It works great on the PC side, but as I mentioned since it's not up to date, I only know it works on Windows98se, but I'm still venturing and hoping it works on XP. I haven't explored that avenue yet. I actually think that's a benefit to us SF users because there is no audio features, and as you know ALL those programs that have MIDI and AUDIO seem to be very slugish and buggy. Vision is MIDI only for the PC version and is very solid. I don't know of any other program that is strictly a midi sequencer with a good user interface. Vision is it!!!! Too bad they died. That's why I would hope that Sonic Foundry would pick up the features in Vision and implement it into their product for Midi. I think I told you at AES in L.A. I mentioned this to the guys from Samplitude and they thought this was a great idea. Vision was an industry standard at the time in recording studios. Most of the Vision users went to Logic Audio, when Opcode died, but everyone agreed that Logic was a steep learning curve over the Studio Vision user interface. Samplitude has recently introduced midi features, but it is similar to Protools and ACID...basic midi, without the editing features to do essential midi editing.

Pipe,
I purchased Vision for PC. It's a basic enter serial number and install the program to get it up and running. Since it's discontinued I don't think it's too much of a problem to pass it along to others. If you want to try it out, send me an email to rednroll@hotmail.com and I will hook you up. Only problem is that I don't know if it works on Win2k or WinXP. It definately works with the midi yoke with Acid on the same PC though, because as I mentioned it supports Internal clock, SMPTE, and MIDI beat clock, which can be accessed through the midi yoke with ACID on the same PC. I know it works on Win98se.

Red
pwppch wrote on 5/15/2003, 9:11 AM
Consider the Piano Roll v 1.0.

MIDI is a complex beast. It has SO many details. There are also very great expectations for a Piano Roll since people are so use to using them in apps that are at version 5 or higher.

Think of it this way. Forge set the bar for audio editors. If you get a v1.0 wave editor it is unlikely it will meet up the expectations of a Sound Forge user.

We will apply our UI magic and improve the Piano Roll in ACID.

Peter





JohanAlthoff wrote on 5/15/2003, 9:25 AM
...And this is why I'm glad SF never fell for the pressure and implemented MIDI in Vegas. Just imagine how many morons would jump in and complain about how useless a sequencer Vegas was!

The right tools for the right job, gentlemen. Acid is a looping tool, Vegas is a non-linear media editor. Wanna make music? Get a sequencer.
stakeoutstudios wrote on 5/15/2003, 6:44 PM
That's a damn good answer Mr. PCH.

My first recordings were naff. I'm pretty fly these days!
PipelineAudio wrote on 5/20/2003, 4:49 AM
cant wait to see the someday improved acid piano roll. Thanks for the optimism PCH! Till then I will probably try to learn vision. I could still see a *mature* piano roll and sequencer in vegas. Sooner rather than later vegas WILL need a sequencer of sorts to store and edit automation from a MIDI control surface wont it?
pwppch wrote on 5/20/2003, 6:08 AM
>>Sooner rather than later vegas WILL need a sequencer of sorts to store and edit automation from a MIDI control surface wont it?
<<
Not really. Automation data from a control surface is translated into the native format of the host typically. Most surfaces send out 'I have changed this much" vs "this is the absolulte setting" type numbers. Also, each automatable parameter may have very different values.

Even if there were some add on that desired MIDI data - some bizarre FX plug or a pass through to some other plugged in object - the data can typically be represented internally with out the need for a full blown sequencing engine.

Peter