OT: Adding CG elements...

newUzer wrote on 10/19/2007, 1:01 PM
As a hobbyist I'm always looking to try new things, including most recently, matchmoving. I'm seriously looking at PFHoe and PFHoePro because of price, and in terms of something free, Voodoo camera tracker. These export camera data to 3ds max, after effects, xsi, cinema 4d, maya, blender, etc, so it seems my big choice is to figure out which of these applications best suites me. Strictly in terms of price, Blender wins hands down because it's free. However, I've heard a lot about the intuitive nature of Cinema 4D. XSI, on the other hand, is about half the price, but it seems mostly for games. 3ds max, maya, and others on the list are way too pricey for me. So, the big question is, does anyone have any experience combining CG elements with live footage using matchmoving? I'm thinking unanimated CG for now, with animated elements showing up as I get better later on. I'm also thinking I'd start with an object that's already premodeled, and try to place it in scene. As a hobbyist (with some money), is Cinema 4D the best option or would after effects cover all my bases since I'm also interested in corner pinning? Would XSI work for any of this?

Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 10/19/2007, 2:59 PM
Maya takes 2 years, nearly full time, to become proficient in.

Blender is not much fun to use, imho.

XSI is well respected, but an odd one out.

Cinema4D is fun to use, easiest to learn of the major apps, and has the best After Effects integration by a wide margin.

C4D is still a full-blown professional 3D app, so there is a lot of application-independent stuff to learn.

After Effects has "3D" functionality, but not in the same way. The camera, scripting support, and various operators are there, but it's not even close to a full 3D app.

People often find AE difficult to learn, but it's a fraction of the effort to learn the
mechanics of 3D, and I think that if you pick that up and practice a bit, it's not difficult to learn.

For tracking, PFHoe Pro is an excellent product, but look at SynthEyes also. Fairly inexpensive, and it works well enough that it is the preferred tool for many Hollywood artists.

Also, look at Strata 3D and its unique possibilities. With this, you can do many things in a fraction of the time it would take in other 3D apps. If you know Photoshop, this app is quite easy to learn, and it also integrates very well with Adobe's software.

Strata allows you to take a series of photographs of an object and have this converted into a 3D model in your computer, with texture and all elements.

So much more, see http://www.strata3d.com/3dsuite.asp.

From one magazine review:
Strata 3D[in] provides 99% of your 3D modelling needs within an intuitive, comprehensive environment. Integration with Photoshop is seamless and occasionally inspired. Whether you're a seasoned 3D modeller, or a dedicated Photoshop user who only wants to import and render models found in the Google 3D Warehouse, Strata 3D[in] will revolutionise the way you work.

Strata 3D CX was named number one and "Best Buy" in Digit's 3D Design Software Shootout from a total of six 3D applications.

And Complx Minds said:
Strata 3D CX comes with so many pre-installed models, features and textures that a novice CG artist will be rendering professional looking images in no time.

Common people talk about "golf widows." That is nothing compared to "3D widows," as it's a huge field of learning at a professional level.

Don't forget Poser 7 also. If this covers your needs, you have cut the learning curve even more. Poser 7 is incredibly easy to learn, although it doesn't have the full functionality of the top high-end packages.

After Effects is about the worst product for corner pinning. The best fix is Imagineering's Mocha for After Effects, just out.

richard-courtney wrote on 10/19/2007, 6:38 PM
I have used Voodoo in the past but found http://www.ssontech.com/SynthEyes[/link] was easier
to get the tracking data into my 3D app Caligari trueSpace.

Sorry these aren't free SynthEyes is $400 but allows you to weed out trackers
that are not needed.

TrueSpace7.5 with Vray (very pricey but creates the most realistic scenes).

Try the SynthEyes demo. You can place simple objects (box, cone, etc) in the
scene just for testing. I am not into character animation, simply not enough time.
Creating virtual sets is fun and can be profitable if you get good at it.
deusx wrote on 10/19/2007, 8:04 PM
XSI foundation for $500 is the best deal in software of any kind. I'd say even better deal then blender which is free, considedring what you get.

But, as has been mentioned above, these apps take a lot longer to learn than any NLE software. About the only thing missing in foundation is fur, hair, and higher end, studio production tools, but if you have the knowhow, you can do anything in foundation that you can do in more expensive versions of XSI ( $3k and $5K, that's why foundation is a ridiculous bargain at $500 )., there are even hair plugins available if you really need that.

You do have to fingure out which 3d app works best for your needs.
They all seem to have different ways of doing things. You should visit http://forums.cgsociety.org/ and ask around there. They can help you more with this, than this group . You have app specific forums too. I'm sure somebody has done what you are asking, on a professiona level. I don't have any experience really with this specific area, I use XSI mostly for character animation and backgrounds. Any kind of tracking and compsiting, I do in fusion.
newUzer wrote on 10/23/2007, 1:09 PM
Thanks to all for very thorough replies. I may be wrong, but I'm beginning to think that C4D might be my best option, even though it's somewhat pricey. Everything I've seen suggests the UI is very intuitive, and one can actually do something within a few days. It also plays nice with matchmovers, which is what started all this. I guess my goal is to get something that's to 3D what Vegas is to NLE - i.e., Vegas isn't the end all be all of NLE, but I found it very easy to dive right in and get something done without ever pulling a single hair out. I realize 3D is *much* different, but can anyone comment on whether C4D could ever come close in terms of ease of use - i.e., would a noob find C4D as intuitive as that same noob found Vegas?